Gen. II-616/ 617 Sanden style A/C Compressor Mounting Kit For Sale + Install Inst.
 

Generation II-616/ 617 Sanden style A/C Compressor Mounting Kit For Sale + Installation Instructions.
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...7/100_1477.jpg

The price is $180.00 + $20.00 Priority Mail S/H (insurance included).
The kit comes with the main mounting bracket, belt, tension adjusting brackets, oil cooler lines mounting bracket, and all necessary fasteners.
I can only accept CA$H as payment sent to my P.O. Box with delivery confirmation and insurance.
Please private message to order and/or go to:http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/324964-gen-2-sanden-617-kit-want-list-started.html

In addition to this kit, you will need a Sanden style compressor, hoses (made by air conditioning shop), and the system evacuated and charged.
Also, please use this thread for all installation questions.
The following posts will have detailed instructions and photos.

Installation instructions
 

Here are the instructions for installing the bracket, compressor and tension adjustment parts. Sorry for the crummy photos. They were not taken with the parts on an engine, but you get the idea (I may replace them with the plate mounted on an engine if I get a chance).
The first thing to do is remove the old R4 compressor and aluminum mounting bracket.
You will need to retain one long compressor bolt, and the dual oil cooler hose strap, as they will be re-used.
Mount the plate on the engine using one long bolt (used) and one washer and lock nut (provided), and three 8mm bolts and lock washers.
Install all four fasteners before tightening them fully.
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...7/100_1479.jpg
Next, install the tension adjusting brackets, adjusting screw, and spacer as shown. Place the washer against the aluminum:
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...7/100_1481.jpg
Next, mount the compressor on the outboard side of the tabs with the nuts facing towards each other (again, with the washers against the aluminum):
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...7/100_1480.jpg
Install the slotted adjusting bracket to the plate with the short bolt. The finished product should look like this:
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...7/100_1483.jpg
Be sure to tighten the top two bolts just snug so the compressor can swing. After installing the belt, tighten the long adjusting screw so the belt has the proper tension, and then tighten the jamb nut. You can now tighten all the bolts.
Install the oil cooler line bracket in the power steering pump bracket using the two factory bolts. Re-use the dual hose strap and tighten the bolt (provided):
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...7/100_1485.jpg

i believe a customer of mine will be buying that kit from you......he has been looking for exactly that kit, to replace his clunky compressor with......time for a real reliable compressor...

Hey ROLLGUY ---

Can you tell me which Sanden compressor you have in this picture?

Thanks for the great post showing how to do the mounting!!!

It's a U 4426. It has a pad type hose mounting, but it was only $10 at the swap meet and is new, so I bought it. I can always change the head to something usable.

Thanks! What type of hose connection is preferred?

O ring

Everyone that has purchased a kit please read!
 

Although the testing of the Gen 1 bracket on my SD has been successful and without issues, the Gen 2 bracket has had some issues that I need those of you that have one to be aware of. A while back, I noticed some rattling from the engine bay and found a broken bolt on the top mounting tab of the compressor. I replaced it, and a few weeks later, the nut was gone. Just yesterday I was showing someone the bracket, and I noticed that the nut on the long bolt (12mm) was gone. I mistakenly have been using/providing nylon locking nuts with the kit, but have found that they are backing out and/or breaking (most likely because of heat). I am going to supply all metal lock nuts with the kits from now on. If you have a kit and have not installed it yet, I suggest you (1) PM me your address and I will send you replacements, or (2) go to your local fastener supplier and purchase them. For the Gen 1 kit you will need 4- 3/8 24 all metal lock nuts, and the Gen 2 takes 8- 3/8 all metal lock nuts, and one M12 lock nut. Actually, the only place the Gen 2 really needs them is on the long bolt (M12), and the two compressor to plate bolts. If you would like me to send you the nuts, please send me a private message with your address and which bracket you have, and I would be happy to send them. If you choose to just buy them, I am ok with that as well. Even though you may not have the nut problems I have been having, it is a good idea to replace them anyway. Thanks in advance for your understanding, Rich

Thanks for the up date Rich. I`ll just go to the hardware store for them.


Charlie

Rich,
Haven't installed mine yet (son has car). I don't mind going to Ace for the lock nuts, but unsure what to get. By "all metal lock nut" do you mean the type that have deformed threads on one end, usually from swaged dimples in the nut, or do you mean a spring type lock washer? The deformed nuts might be hard to find in metric. Do you have an Ace Hardware PN or what tray to look in?

Yes the deformed all metal lock nut. You will need the M12 and 8- 3/8 24 if you have the Gen 2, only 4- 3/8 24 nuts if you have Gen 1. You could get by with just using all metal lock nuts on the compressor to plate bolts, as the others are not subject to as much heat.

Rich,

I finally had my bracket installed yesterday. My mechanic was very impressed with your bracket. He seems to think that my "Sanden bracket problems" are over.

For those who don't know my story, approximately 3 years ago, I decided that I wanted a Sanden compressor on my 1985 W123. I found a guy on eBay who was selling 2 CD's describing how to install his custom made Sanden bracket and also how to install a parallel flow condenser on a W123. I did an internet search but could find no other source of this type of bracket. Rather than take a chance on having someone else screw up the installation, I decided to drive all the way from North Carolina to Arizona to have the installation done by the "W123 expert."

The parallel flow condenser worked out fine but after installing his custom bracket the expert informed me that one of the ears of the Sanden broke off but "it wouldn't be a problem since 3 bolts would be sufficient." Everything seemed fine after the installation and I made it back home with no issues. A/C was ice cold. Then, a few months later, I heard a rattle and took the car to my mechanic. It seemed that the expert's bracket broke and required re-welding. My mechanic stated that, in his opinion, the bracket design was poor. Over the last 3 years, I have made six trips to my shop to have this bracket re-welded. I hesitated to take the car on any long trips, since I had now way of knowing when a problem would occur.

Finally, I found Jim's bracket on this thread. I am hoping that my nightmare is finally over. I am going to try to attach some photos of the retired bracket. In hindsight, I feel that the broken ear my have contributed to the problem. It may have caused increased vibration.

Thanks again, Jim.

RollGuy's bracket looks well-made (haven't installed mine), but so does the other one in mountainmike47's photos, though the photos don't show how it looks installed on the engine. Broken Sanden ears is a common problem among hot rodders who use those compressors. Best to use a proven kit when you can. Nothing beats testing (my day job is a test engineer). RollGuy above found a slight problem in testing, with an easy fix, but left unfixed would likely result in similar rattling and broken parts. Loosening bolts and metal fatigue from vibration are hard to predict without testing.

That is one reason I have updated the fasteners. I am also working on an additional bracket to help secure the lower part of the main bracket. The original engineers in Germany designed the fasteners and brackets on these engines to withstand intense vibration. Everyone knows that a Diesel engine will try to vibrate anything bolted to it, and the aftermarket Sanden bracket is no exception. I have tested the Gen 1 bracket (on my 300SD) for 2 seasons so far, and it still works great. The Sanden with the Gen2 bracket on my 240 has been installed for the past 6 months, and has had a few fastener problems (thus the reason for the updated fasteners), but seems to be fine now. I can only rely on others that have installed these kits to help with testing, in that they let me know right away of any problems that arise. I am more than happy to resolve any problems in an expedient manner. For my regular job, I rely on word of mouth to get more jobs. I want to do quality work so I can keep earning a living. I have been very busy for years, and am thankful that I still have plenty of work. The manufacturing of these aftermarket parts is no different. I want to make available the best and least expensive parts that I can. I have other ideas for parts in my head (trap-ox bypass pipe, radiator hose nipple guard etc), and hope to make them available one day as well....Rich

I found the 12 mm coarse all-metal lock nut at Ace ($0.85), along with the 3/8"-24 nuts ($0.53 ea). They are in the pull-out trays. Didn't get the PN's since the guy grabbed them quickly. I didn't get the allen-head screws since wasn't sure that upgrade is required. I'll find out, assuming my son drives the car home.

The others don't need to be allen bolts, but the 2 compressor bolts should be.
You will find it much easier to install the inboard compressor bolt if it is an allen. The 2 bolts I now supply are alloy, and are stronger than grade 8. Grade 8 are just fine, but the standard hardware bolts (grade 3) are not good enough. All the bolts in the kits I sell are grade 5 or better.

Compressors and hose assemblies available soon
 

I will have hose assemblies available soon, and will have compressors available sooner. The parts will be available as a complete kit (bracket, hose assemblies, compressor, drier) or each sold separately. The problem will be that I only have hose assemblies for non-turbo models with Sanden rear port fittings available right now. The turbo models have a different low side hard pipe (on top of the engine that bolts to the fuel filter stand and thermostat housing bracket), and I don't have any right now to modify. I will require a core charge on the pipe if your old one is not sent prior to buying the hose assemblies. The compressors I will have available will come with the "K" style rear port head. I will try to offer the best price I can in order to be competitive.
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...7/100_1537.jpg
Stay tuned for more info on pricing and availability....Rich

31.5 degree vent temp
 

New hose installation with parallel flow condenser
 

I just got finished installing a parallel flow condenser and hose kit in my neighbors 300D. The 16X20 parallel flow condenser was purchased on ebay motors.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...7/100_1586.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...7/100_1587.jpg

The rest of the hoses and compressor:
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...7/100_1589.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...7/100_1591.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...7/100_1590.jpg

I am able to make all the hoses in house now, and can also make custom hoses. I try to use steel fitting whenever possible....Rich PM or email: wvobenzs@yahoo.com

That installation sure looks pretty.:D

great work, rich. the more of the kit you can supply, the easier this mod sounds!

for a non-AC car, how many parts are needed inboard of the firewall? is an AC car's airbox and AC controls the extent of it?

I am not sure, as I have never seen a non-A/C 'Benz with a 616/617. I can only assume you would need an A/C equipped car as a donor for the parts.

PM sent asking about hoses.
I have a Sanden.
I need to obtain the condenser so I sent an Email to ackits.com, they are very helpful and hopefully will find something suitable, I know they sold one to another Forum member so I would like to get the same size and I would rather use them than eBay.

Question: Are you using a pusher fan in front of the condenser?
I don't see the other half of the OE bracket that held it and the horns.
DDH

The photo was taken before the fan was installed. It is the stock condenser fan and wiring.

As long as the condenser is NOT wider than 20", it should fit. A few inches are needed for the hoses to have room to connect. Most of the PF condensers available now are universal units that are made in China, so chances are you will be getting the exact same condenser, regardless of who you buy it from.

I'm on my third R4 compressor. The original went over 300,000 miles and receipts show it was replaced at ********e Montclair, California in the early 1990's. I resealed this one twice, but it never went out mechanically. It was smashed in my son's April 2006 wreck on SR 99 near Kingsburg.

The 'new' R4 was pulled from a W116 with a bad engine and resealed/inspected. It's been running now for about 60,000 miles.

I think the fact that I only run R-12 and precisely measure my oil and refrigerant has a lot to do with my compressor longevity.

When this one goes out, I may do the Sanden swap. The pieces look good...

HINT: If you need an R4, and cannot afford the Sanden, look for the 'service replacement' model easily found on Cadillacs in Pik-N-Pull. It is easy to flip the front bearing retainer and replace the front seal. You pull the front retainer and swap in the new seal with it on the bench, then use the seal protector and install the retainer back in place.

fair enough and thanks. this post by SurfRodder is the best explanation i have found so far: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/2100006-post36.html

Another update
 

Along with the above fastener update, I have found that the belt that was sent with the kits is too long. The 15385 belts I had were for the Gen 1 kit. The proper belt is a 15375 (one inch shorter). If your adjustment screw is all the way out, your belt is too long. The photo below is with the long belt:
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...7/100_1590.jpg

The proper belt length should look like this:
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...7/100_1602.jpg

If your belt is too long, I would be happy to send you the proper belt, or you can purchase one locally. Please let me know. Thanks, Rich

New complete hose kits available
 

I have finally got all the equipment and supplies on hand to make complete hose assemblies. The price for the low and high side hoses is $80 + $20 S/H/I:
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...7/100_1611.jpg
The price includes the modifying of your low side hard pipe (sent to me with $, modified, and sent back to you with the complete hose kit).

I also have the extra high side hose that is needed when using a parallel flow condenser. $20 additional when ordered with a hose kit (no additional postage):
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...7/100_1612.jpg

I also have the ability to make the #12 low side hose that connects to the TXV, and the other end to the hard pipe:
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...7/100_1613.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...7/100_1614.jpg
$80 + $20 S/H/I I will need the fitting (metal tube connected to the TXV) and other parts from your old hose (sleeves and rubber rub rings).

Another update
 

For all of you who have purchased a Gen II kit, I have another update. I am planning on making another bracket to help secure the bottom of the compressor mounting plate. It will mount using longer bolts in 3 of the pan bolt holes, and nuts on the top. Another hole (1/2") is drilled in the compressor mounting plate .625 from each edge. Here is a look at the prototype:
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...7/100_1618.jpg
Location of drilled hole:

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...7/100_1615.jpg

The bracket is needed more for the 616 application, but I have prototypes made for both the 616 & 617 turbo (they are different). I am not sure if the 617 N/A has the same lower pan as the turbo. If it is different, I will need to make a third bracket. From now on, all of the plates will have the hole drilled in them, and the bracket should be available shortly. If you have a plate already installed, it is possible to drill the hole without removing the compressor. I will post here when the brackets are available, and send them to those that have already purchased a kit....Rich

What's the issue you are having with the plate? Vibrations? Plate flexing? Does the Gen 1 have the same issue?


.

I have not heard from anyone about any problem, but I found that on my 240 the belt was chirping regardless of how tight it was. There is less support on the lower part of the plate on a 616, so this new bracket fixed the problem. All of the 617 applications I have done have not had any problems. It may be that the piece of the block that sticks out just above the upper pan on a 617 offers more support. I am making brackets for both anyway, and drilling all the plates, not knowing what engine they will go on. I don't think the bracket will work on the Gen 1 plate, as the bolt would be right where the compressor mounting tab is. However, the new bracket could be welded in place for the Gen 1 applications if needed.....Rich

Rich,
I really appreciate your being pro-active on all these issues. This new bracket concerns me if it could crack the upper oil pan, since steel often wins against cast aluminum. I know M-B hung other things off that lip, like the high-pressure AC hose (seems silly), but it would be a major pain to deal with a crack there (must remove engine).

I haven't installed your compressor bracket yet since my son hasn't returned with the car. I may look into welding a stiffener down the front of the plate instead, or maybe adding a rubber snubber that presses against the block to damp vibrations. I would rather risk the compressor plate than my upper oil pan.

Like I said, the 617 applications have not had any problems. The plate does not touch the upper pan at all, but rather may touch the casting that sticks out just above the upper pan. Either way, a 617 lower bracket is in the works and when they are finished, one will be sent to all that have purchased a Gen 2 kit. One will also become part of future kits sold. If you have a gen 1 kit, the bracket will still work, but it will need to be welded in place. It should be fairly easy to do for someone that can weld overhead.....Rich

I'd like to offer up my solution to the issue of extra support for the compressor.

As I analyzed the problem, I was very concerned about the amount of the bracket that was cantilevered and the amount of stress and vibration that was present. I don't have the capability to do finite element analysis or anything other than "back-of-the-napkin" engineering, so I can't speak definitively. I also had a problem in that, I couldn't use the bottom adjusting solution because of space so I had to develop a belt adjusting strategy that could be accomplished from above. In fact I had to cut the bottom two inches of the bracket off. (My 617 is in a 107 chassis, so I have extremely limited space to work with.)

My solution is to tie the outboard ear on the Sanden to the lower P/S bolt like this: ( I apologize for the picture - it was taken during mock up with my junk compressor and temp rods for mounting )

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...l-sl-heim1.jpg

The adjusting rod is a 1/2" tube with heim joints on either end. I used a long 1/2" bolt with sleeves to keep the lower heim joint at the proper 90 degree position relative to the compressor. I needed to use a longer bolt on the P/S pump due to the additional width of the heim joint. The adjuster nut in the middle makes adjusting a snap using a crows foot wrench. Also, using this strategy puts the adjustment components in tension rather than compression.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...l-sl-heim3.jpg

This provides a pretty substantial triangulation which is illustrated in the following

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...l-bracket6.jpg

If I were using an unmodified GenII bracket, I'd supplement the support using this strategy. The adjustment procedure would be as follows - double-check the tension on the P/S belt; loosen the bottom adjuster on the GenII bracket; adjust the A/C belt tension with the adjuster rod; snug up the bottom adjuster as backup.

I've got over 5k miles on the setup and the only problem has been keeping the belt in adjustment. (I think this is mainly due to belt stretch due to using a cheap belt - my bad!).

I know that you had no choice but to to it this way, and I commend you for being able to accomplish it. For the normal 123, 126, 116 applications, there are hoses and a bracket in the way of where the adjusting rod would be. The lower support bracket I am making is much more simple, and gives the support where it is needed. The belt wants to pull the compressor toward the crank, so supporting the bottom of the compressor mounting will solve that problem directly. I am willing to absorb the cost of this added bracket if not just for peace of mind. It may cost upwards of $5 each to produce (they will be cad plated), but I think it will become a necessity in the long run. I know the 616 will benefit from the extra support, but again, the 617 kits will get one as well.....Rich

Good point. I should have stipulated that I did some significant modifications to the oil line support bracket in order to support the modified oil cooler lines I used.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...-bracket11.jpg

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...ect-380-65.jpg

It's been so long since I did the oil cooler line mod, I forget how the original lines ran. And I should also state that I'm using an oil filter and lines off an SD (126) that may put the lines in a different relative position.

I think the point I was trying to make is, that if someone wants to try to add some top support, the solution I found is one that works. And if they've got the fab skills to weld up an adjuster rod, moving the cooler lines an inch or two and modifying the support bracket should be within reach.

Can anyone tell me the correct belt size for a OM616? I asked Roll guy, but he has been out of pocket. Hoping to get the install finished tomorrow if I can get the right belt

zeke: i cannot be sure, but here is what the pelican told me to order for a 617:
Belt - A/C - 13 X 925 Brand: Contitech (1985 Mercedes-Benz 300D Sedan)

See Rollguy's quote below

Rollguy uses a standard American belt sizing. If you were using a Contitech belt in MM, I believe or guess the belt size would be around 13 x 960 or 13 x 965.

Thanks, I missed that. I got the 15375 belt, but the suction hose seems too short to reach the compressor.....I guess I need to take it to a hydraulic shop and have them make it a little longer?

I have never had a hose fabricated before...do I take the hose and car in and they can measure and rebuild it?

Sorry all, I have been gone for the past few days. The belt in the kits I sell is for the 617, and for the Sanden compressor retrofit kit. Factory specs are no longer applicable. I put a used belt on my 616 when I installed the kit because I realized it needed to be shorter. The belt I put on was a 17375. It rides in the drive pulley groove just fine, but rides proud of the compressor pulley a little. I imagine that a 15370 would work, but I have not tried it. All this to say I really don't know the proper size belt for the 616. I have not had an order for a kit to be installed on a 616 before Charlie (Charmalu) bought one, but he has not installed it yet. Zeke seems to be the second (that I am aware of). PM on the way Zeke........Rich

ROLLGUY: Here is the photo of the hard line and soft line junction. The hard line fits in the brackets perfectly (First MB I have had with BOTH brackets working)!

It seems that the pipe is in fact at least 2 inches higher than the pipe on my 617. On mine, the fitting is very close to the P S pump casting. It appears that I need to make 2 different hoses, one for the older style (higher), and one for the newer (lower).

The older N/A 616/617 are like that. You can however retrofit the older style line with the newer style line if you get the proper length rubber hose leading to the tx valve.


.

True, but it seems easier for me just to make the hoses longer, and to order. I just need to know what engine configuration I am dealing with before making the hoses.....Rich

Rich,
I'm very interested in this AC upgrade! What are the vent temps you are getting? The link to temp readings above didn't work.
Thanks,
Mark

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/338192-123-sanden-r134a-vent-temps.html
Try that.....Rich

Last kit sold to me for $400! :D Little misunderstandings, but got it worked out!

I rebuilt my AC a few years ago with a new R4 and R12, and now I'm almost wanting it to fail so that I can get this kit and a sanden!! Granted I don't drive the car much, but this thing looks amazing for the price.