Thanks Adriel. I figured I was in for a fun time for the PO tried to pry the vynl away form the side molding to look at these drain nipples, but never got the padding or valance back into place. The aluminum sunroof trim which you mention has already been removed so as to inspect the wind-deflect at the front of the sunroof pan for any rust damage. Non was found. Is there something in the FSM on removing this front valance ? To effectively stop the rust, both sides of the metal need to be treated. This indicates removing the roof handle and part of the headliner.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, the felt from the side-runners can clog up the drain. I've read on a forum but can't find it at the moment. Thick weed-eater line is what I've used in the past to clean these drains but that's not the best thing to use. I can braze a shop cable to a brush to pull through to clean drain. What size brush should I use ? THis car is an 82, but I have an 83 240D which is going to need to have the problems fixed.

the upper windshield reveal trim is a pita if you have never pulled it before. After removing the visors and mirror and sunroof trim the natural instinct is to grab that trim piece and pull down. if you do though you will break both the clips on the sides and underneath that hold it in place. I have ruined a few of these till I figured this out. the way the clips work you need to push the trim piece forward towards the windshield until the clips disengage and then you can pull it down.

Effectively assessing the condition of the sunroof really requires removal of the whole headliner and removal of the sponge rubber pads covering the sunroof pan. ONce you are in that far you might waas well remove the bolts and take the whole pan out. For the amount of rust you have I would almost do that because there will surely be more. I found rust under the seal around the edge on mine as well. Plus once you have it out you can remove the rust, rough it up, por-15 the whole pan, chassis coat black it and then never worry about it again. The foam gasket at the dealer is cheap. Less than $20 if I recall correctly. The other thing to be careful of if removing the pan is the large thick foam gasket at the back of the pan. Try to keep it in one piece. I have had no luck sourcing replacements for these. Weirdly the EPC does not show it as part either. It shows the thinner front gasket going all the way around but that is totally incorrect. The thin gasket only covers the front lip of the pan.

__________________
1978 Mercedes 240D
1981 Mercedes 240D
1982 Mercedes 240D

Yes NC-Diesel, I agree that would be the best approach and to drop the pan. I found the instructions on removing the headliner in the FSM, but in dropping the pan, how do you get it out, or is it possible to remove from car without removing either the front or rear windshield ?

ALso looks like the headliner isn't the only PITA !

The headliner removal will require removing the rear windshield as it's tucked int he back up under the seal. It may be possible to just pop the top of the inner seal out enough to get the headliner out. It is wrapped around the back window flange though and glued. The pan itself you just remove about 8 or so bolts and the rubber hoses and it drops right down. no front windshield removal should be necessary.

__________________
1978 Mercedes 240D
1981 Mercedes 240D
1982 Mercedes 240D

Ugh.... I have to replace the front windshield in about a week, re-install the hood and do some welding of body panel before April when the car will get painted. If I decide to remove the pan, the scary part is getting the headliner out correctly (without ripping stuff) and getting it back in.
Currently I've removed the rear-view mirror, both visors and figured out how to get the clips off without breaking them. The front panel wasn't that hard to get out of the car. Using the words of wisdom from members who wrote on this thread, I was sucessfull in getting to the front drains. The nipples look fully intact and in good shape with no rust, which is what I was hopping. My skills consist of rebuilding engines, painting both boats and cars with a gun, some body work but never upholstery work, so I'm a rank novice at that.
I need to put this car back on the road soon and I plan to sell it. I have an 83 240D which I'm keeping and will use everything I've learned on this car and duplicate it on the 83. If the sun roof pan on the 83 looks anything like the one in this thread, I'll drop it and completely repair it.

On my car it was impossible to remove the headliner with out causing damage - it was really well glued in there.

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Cleaned the sun roof tube by pulling a brush thru it. I did not experience what others had written concerning a lot of goop in the tube. Whatever grease that was in it before had caked and dried. Upon using the brush followed by brake cleaner, I got very little crap out of the tube. Dried with compressed air.
Next I put some grease in the tube and pulled it thru with a piece of paper towel squeeze between a loop of shop wire. Then turned attention to the cable. It got a bath in kerosine with a parts cleaning brush then cleaned off with brake cleaner. While the cable dried, I put the motor back together with the transmission. Applied a little grease to the bearing of the transmission. Re-installed the sunroof motor in trunk and the cable slides quite easily.

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John,

Is there a tutorial on the complete care and maintenance of sunrooves on PP?

Well, I ran into major rust problem which was not visible until the front drain where exposed by removing part of the headliner trim. I wanted to see the drain nipples and what condition they where in. The passenger side didn't show any sign of rust under the sunroof pan, but the drivers side was another story. The question is where is the water coming from to cause this rust? It appears that this is being caused by water running down on the backside of the sunroof frame which is not visible. I read on a forum the the felt pad seals on either side of the side roof is clamped between the roof and the sunroof pan. Is this true ?
I have an idea, but I'd like to find out from more experienced members on this forum. Any idea's ?

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Well it doesn't look very pretty does it?

I suspect that that has happened because of blocked drains/ dirt build up on the tray

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Yes, I would agree that the drains may have been clogged up at one point of it's life, which has not been an issue since I've owned the car. What's even more interesting is that on the top side of this trough, there is not one spec of rust anywhere leading towards the front or rear drain.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but rust exists on not only the underside of this sunroof frame member which would come from a clogged drain, but also on the backside going up towards the roof. How does a clogged drain explain this ?

Seeing everything that you are going through just makes me want to wait until a nice day to open the sunroof and get some polyurethane glue and glue it shut.

As these cars get old it is just something else to go wrong.

Good luck.

__________________
85 Merc 300D - Unwinding 31 years of wear
86 VW TD
Mahindra Diesel
Iseki Diesel

In 2007 I didn't own a diesel.

I dunno for sure - but with multiple clogged drains and a fair amount of sloshing about (I assume the car was driven about for some of its life) moisture / wetness could find its way into many an uncompromising situation - it only has to sit there for a bit of the car's life to end up with weird looking rust => have you ever seen a W202?

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

I'd love to seal the up. Talked to Roy yesterday and there a bunch of people in Michigan which have done just that. They replace tape every coulple of months. For me, that's not an option. I can use it for about 5 to 6 months out of the year. So I got to fix this. Strech. I believe the water is coming from from a area around the felt side seals, I am going to test my theory which will redirect rain into the troughs which has the drains.
Now I'm not ignoring the moisture created by a comprimising clogged drains but I want to test a few things, but moisture does funny things in warm weather as water turns to vapors and then back into water as the temp cools. Also,it goes where you wold least expect. No stretch, please enlighten me about the w202 frame type and the problems encountered by drainage problems.
Since I've got other things to fix to get this back on the road before it gets painted, I've por15 both the top and underside of the sunroof frame to seal it from any more degradation. What's funny is the top side of the drain shows not rust, but the underside is completly another story as you can see
Today I'm going to put the sunroof itself back into the car. Have new slider jaws which need to be installed.

As far as I know there's nothing particularly related to drainage problems for that model - they just rust in weird places. (Soon to be ex-) Wife's uncle had a W202 that had more rust half way up the doors than it did around the door bottoms. It rusted in really daft unexpected places - probably due to poor quality control / the introduction of water based paints (that have now been improved I understand).

Don't forget that POR-15 goes chalky when exposed to UV - this is a sun roof after all. Perhaps a top coat of their chassis black is in order?

Those side brushes do seem to be available at an OK price (as well as the dealer price!) at the moment. May be a new set isn't such a bad idea?

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!