Starting problem Help, engine runaway - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

barry12345 · #16 03-02-2013, 11:06 AM

Strange they just did not use the relief valve from your other pump. I could see them maybe taking the approach they are if the replacement pump was brand new. The old one was in the workable range I wouild expect. Although they probably do not check the fuel pressure. So a new one may be better than a used one if so. Or it may be no better than the used one either.

inkblotz · #17 03-02-2013, 01:19 PM

I don't believe the new pump had the valve in place. I believe it had a plastic plug.

Photo new pump installed. Hopefully Monday I will be on the road again.

Mark

inkblotz · #18 03-04-2013, 08:49 PM

OK new development: the restricter valve was not the issue. They got the motor running but it had no power. The timing was way off. After much discussion with the tech and the shop forman we determined that the problem stems from when I had the motor out and was replacing various components. One component in particular was the front crankshaft seal. When I removed and reinstalled the front vibration absorber timing wheel I evidently reinstalled it way off the timing mark. So when the techs installed the new FI pump aligning it with the timing marks they were inadvertently setting it up wrong.
So now they will first set the engine timing by the camshaft marks. Then they will remove the timing wheel and place it back in its proper position then they will once again remove and reinstall the injection pump.
All because of one stupid mistake on my part.

Hopefully tomorrow.
Mark

whunter · #19 03-04-2013, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inkblotz

OK new development: the restricter valve was not the issue. They got the motor running but it had no power. The timing was way off. After much discussion with the tech and the shop forman we determined that the problem stems from when I had the motor out and was replacing various components. One component in particular was the front crankshaft seal. When I removed and reinstalled the front vibration absorber timing wheel I evidently reinstalled it way off the timing mark. So when the techs installed the new FI pump aligning it with the timing marks they were inadvertently setting it up wrong.
So now they will first set the engine timing by the camshaft marks. Then they will remove the timing wheel and place it back in its proper position then they will once again remove and reinstall the injection pump.
All because of one stupid mistake on my part.

Hopefully tomorrow.
Mark

Mistakes happen.
At least it will be fixed quickly now.

.

inkblotz · #20 03-05-2013, 06:26 AM

Thanks Hunter.
What can I say "First mistake this year."

Mark

MS Fowler · #21 03-05-2013, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inkblotz

Thanks Hunter.
What can I say "First mistake this year."

Mark

Well that puts you in a better position than most of the rest of us--or "me". anyway.

inkblotz · #22 03-05-2013, 09:58 PM

Update:
Got the timing wheel back in its proper place and timed properly now however at load there is a nailing noise at #5 cylinder (did not do this prior to the engine swap). Did a compression test all cylinders are good. Swapped one of the other injectors with the #5 and there was no change. So it turns out that the new pump that I have had for years has had an internal issue all along. So next step will be to remove it, for a 3rd time and send it to the local Bosch certified shop for analysis/repairs.

I will update you when I know more.
M

barry12345 · #23 03-06-2013, 01:04 AM

If the injection shop is going to charge you substantial coin. You may be able to mark the number five pump element adjustment and try manipulating it instead.. The knock should go away.If not just place the adjustment back on the original mark and take the pump in.

Later when more time is available you can use the milli volt method to make sure the cylinder is running at the same temperatue as the others. This is not a perfect solution but no harm should be done. You do not have the time to do a proper set up for the milli volt method right now prior to the adjustment.

The number five element sounds advanced to me. There is also a chance the number five elements delivery valve seal has deteriorated with the pump sitting around for years. I cannot visulaise the calibration adjustment going off what it was set at really with the pump not in service. My suspicion is they might have calibrated the injection pump while accidently using a bad injector the last time.

I was kind of suprised the older mechanics did not quickly check with an injector substitution and attempted the manual correction themselves. Marking the adjustment well means that if it later proved to be a delivery seal issue you could also put the pumps element back to the same position. I do not know where the element adjustment is for the 603 type injection pumps. At some point they went internal but are still managable.

Fulcrum525 · #24 03-06-2013, 01:16 AM

I'm curious to see how this swap turns out and how much differently your truck drives! (I drove a LWB 300GD a few years back and it remains by far the slowest things i've ever driven)

inkblotz · #25 03-06-2013, 05:54 AM

Barry
With the first install of the pump after trying repeatedly to start it they noticed that the rack did not slide all the way over like the old rack did. They removed the side cover and saw that (I don't know the name of the part) the #5 element that rides along the rack and rises up at a certain point was completely out of its slot, off to one side and restricting the racks movement. They reached in with a small screw driver and put it back in place but I guess that the damage was already done. I have not pulled a pump apart before so I do not know its internal workings. (Attached is a photo of the old pump for reference. The area I circled was the part that was off)

They are sending the pump to the shop for a repair of that element not a total rebuild, so hopefully a second mortgage will not be necessary.

Mark

whunter · #26 03-06-2013, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inkblotz

Barry
With the first install of the pump after trying repeatedly to start it they noticed that the rack did not slide all the way over like the old rack did. They removed the side cover and saw that (I don't know the name of the part) the #5 element that rides along the rack and rises up at a certain point was completely out of its slot, off to one side and restricting the racks movement. They reached in with a small screw driver and put it back in place but I guess that the damage was already done. I have not pulled a pump apart before so I do not know its internal workings. (Attached is a photo of the old pump for reference. The area I circled was the part that was off)

They are sending the pump to the shop for a repair of that element not a total rebuild, so hopefully a second mortgage will not be necessary.

Mark

That is amazing..
Thanks for the picture..

.

barry12345 · #27 03-06-2013, 01:56 PM

It is reasonably certain the number five element seized up in storage. The rack could not advance it so the racks motion initially was limited. The weakest component in the chain let go and full rack movement was then established.

Or in hindsight I think that may have been the chain of events. Some of us like myself that do not know learn something from issues posted. In my case if I come across a rack that will not advance easily in the future I will investigate the situation carefully.

A rack that will not advance with a pump that has been in dry storage should get special consideration. Perhaps this should be a preliminary check before installation. I always thought the hangup of an elements piston was about the only potential dry storage issue. .

I could never earlier really figure just how an unused pumps element could go out of calibration. It was just a wild assed guess earlier that it may have been calibrated with a bad injector or it's equivelant on the service bench. That was just a reach at best.

BenzDiesel · #28 03-06-2013, 03:05 PM

So, the bill is now over $2,500.00 and the techs will have something else to charge for after the pump is rebuilt (wink, wink, rebuilt)? If this wasn't so serious in terms of the money gashing on this adventure to the OP by MB, it would be funny.

BenzDiesel

whunter · #29 03-06-2013, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry12345

It is reasonably certain the number five element seized up in storage. The rack could not advance it so the racks motion initially was limited. The weakest component in the chain let go and full rack movement was then established.

Or in hindsight I think that may have been the chain of events. Some of us like myself that do not know learn something from issues posted. In my case if I come across a rack that will not advance easily in the future I will investigate the situation carefully.

A rack that will not advance with a pump that has been in dry storage should get special consideration. Perhaps this should be a preliminary check before installation. I always thought the hangup of an elements piston was about the only potential dry storage issue. .

I could never earlier really figure just how an unused pumps element could go out of calibration. It was just a wild assed guess earlier that it may have been calibrated with a bad injector or it's equivalent on the service bench. That was just a reach at best.

This thread is now linked in post #1 of the engine runaway thread.
Run away diesel, why does it happen?

.

inkblotz · #30 03-06-2013, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenzDiesel

So, the bill is now over $2,500.00 and the techs will have something else to charge for after the pump is rebuilt (wink, wink, rebuilt)? If this wasn't so serious in terms of the money gashing on this adventure to the OP by MB, it would be funny.

BenzDiesel

I WISH it was only $2500.