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  #1  
Old 04-16-2013, 12:54 AM
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Beru loop style glow plug source?

I have had a few Bosch loop style glow plugs fail on me, because my 220d runs very hot. I am working on the hot temperature problem currently, but I now need to replace the plugs.

The bosch plugs were about a year old. Two just failed me, so I want to replace them all. They were made in India (perhaps not relevant). They failed as an open circuit. Basically, internally, some connector failed, but the filament loop itself is fine.

So I have decided to try Beru plugs, but they are rarer than a unicorn. The official US vendor claims the Beru 382 loop style plug is on "backorder." Our hosts here do not carry Beru loop plugs. That place in AZ also don't carry Beru loop plugs.

I have contacted two people on Ebay who claim to sell them, and neither has any stock. I "bought" some from one vendor, and almost a week later was informed they don't have any stock.

I believe the Beru part number is 382 GK. I believe the mb part number is 0001596101. (Bosch calls them 80003, but that number might not be relevant because I don't want Bosch glow plugs).

I hope this isn't an inappropriate question on our forum, but Pelican doesn't have them, so maybe someone out there knows of a source. Thanks.

PS And while I appreciate the advice, please don't recommend that I change to parallel glow plugs. I like the salt-shaker indicator and don't plan to get rid of it any time soon. I also live in a mild climate in CA, so long preglows are not common.

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1968 220D, w115, /8, OM615, Automatic transmission.
My 1987 300TD wagon was sold and my 2003 W210 E320 wagon was totaled (sheds tear).
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  #2  
Old 04-16-2013, 01:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shortsguy1 View Post
... And while I appreciate the advice, please don't recommend that I change to parallel glow plugs. I like the salt-shaker indicator and don't plan to get rid of it any time soon. I also live in a mild climate in CA, so long preglows are not common.
Well, ok then.

Guess I won't be recommending that you change your broken and unobtainable loop plugs to parallel glow plugs. I readily admit that I was definitely thinking about it as that's one of the better upgrades that can be made, but I decided to honor your wish and so won't be making that recommendation. I also won't be suggesting that you consider going with a manual system eliminating the glow plug relay.

I almost did... but quickly decided against it.
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  #3  
Old 04-16-2013, 02:03 AM
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Did you call them at Pellican? they night be able to get them, and might pt them in the catalog.

I did find these guys doing some Google search.

mercedesworks, mercedes benz tune up and maintenance parts

Charlie
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there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

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Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

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Old 04-16-2013, 11:48 AM
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I also live in a mild climate in CA, so long preglows are not common.

The issue is not the climate as much as the fact that when Glow Plug goes bad the rest don't work.
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  #5  
Old 04-16-2013, 11:53 AM
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Nyuk!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mach4 View Post
Well, ok then.

....

I almost did... but quickly decided against it.
HA....HA....HA! Yes, I realize there is a bit of a irony to my original post. Thanks for pointing it out for all to see.

I know it is slightly impractical, but I like the quaintness of my old car. I like the humongous steering wheel and no power steering. I like the fact that it has only a driver's side mirror, so parallel parking is awkward. I like the fact that it has no headrests, because my 2 y.o. son can see better from the back seat out the front windshield. I like the fact that every trip in the car is a small adventure. And I like that my GPs are in series, so I know instantly when there is a problem (I recognize I am taking the glass half full approach here to series GPs). And as I said before, I like the salt shaker GP indicator. It is odd, relatively unique, and totally different than all modern cars. Which is why it is good.

On the other hand, I don't like when my car is out of service. Small adventure=good. Broken down for weeks=not good. So yes, if I am unable to get reliable loop GPs, of course I will consider upgrading to "modern" GPs. I have read the many threads which compare the two systems, so I feel relatively informed. So honestly, no convincing is necessary.

I do very much appreciate the humor.

And Charlie: I have not contacted Pelican directly simply because Roy and Wayne have previously stated that they have all of the Mercedes catalog posted on their website. Also, the shipping can be very high for special order parts. But clearly that is another option to pursue, so thanks for suggesting it.

If no-one out there recently bought Beru loop GPs, I think I will just go with Bosch and keep my fingers crossed (and drive slower/cooler). Here is another glass half full comment: I am getting good at changing GPs quickly! So maybe I just carry some spare Boschs and call it good. I have not been brave enough to try to start my car without operating GPs.
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1968 220D, w115, /8, OM615, Automatic transmission.
My 1987 300TD wagon was sold and my 2003 W210 E320 wagon was totaled (sheds tear).
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  #6  
Old 04-16-2013, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shortsguy1 View Post
HA....HA....HA! Yes, I realize there is a bit of a irony to my original post. Thanks for pointing it out for all to see.

I know it is slightly impractical, but I like the quaintness of my old car. I like the humongous steering wheel and no power steering. I like the fact that it has only a driver's side mirror, so parallel parking is awkward. I like the fact that it has no headrests, because my 2 y.o. son can see better from the back seat out the front windshield. I like the fact that every trip in the car is a small adventure. And I like that my GPs are in series, so I know instantly when there is a problem (I recognize I am taking the glass half full approach here to series GPs). And as I said before, I like the salt shaker GP indicator. It is odd, relatively unique, and totally different than all modern cars. Which is why it is good.

On the other hand, I don't like when my car is out of service. Small adventure=good. Broken down for weeks=not good. So yes, if I am unable to get reliable loop GPs, of course I will consider upgrading to "modern" GPs. I have read the many threads which compare the two systems, so I feel relatively informed. So honestly, no convincing is necessary.

I do very much appreciate the humor.

And Charlie: I have not contacted Pelican directly simply because Roy and Wayne have previously stated that they have all of the Mercedes catalog posted on their website. Also, the shipping can be very high for special order parts. But clearly that is another option to pursue, so thanks for suggesting it.

If no-one out there recently bought Beru loop GPs, I think I will just go with Bosch and keep my fingers crossed (and drive slower/cooler). Here is another glass half full comment: I am getting good at changing GPs quickly! So maybe I just carry some spare Boschs and call it good. I have not been brave enough to try to start my car without operating GPs.
Try this eBay Search: Mercedes-Benz GLOW PLUGS SET OF 4 BERU NEW UNUSED OEM 123 FREE USA SHIPPING

New old stock. In the pics the small threaded ends have some surface rust on them. 4 for $56
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  #7  
Old 04-16-2013, 09:26 PM
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I have strived to keep my 78 240 as original as possible. I had to replace all my loops with new Bosch loops. No idea where they were made, but they have worked very well. I kept all the original Beru insulators though. Was Beru the OEM?
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:35 PM
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try Monark 090501016, made in Germany
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:19 PM
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From what I have read I got the impression that the Bosch and Beru only applied to the Pencil type Glow Plugs.

I have not read a thread in the Disesl discussion that comments on what is best for the Loop/Filiment type Glow Plugs. Is that over in the Vintage section?

In the pic of the Glow Plug the Arrows point to where Carbon bridging a cross the Glow Plug insulator can cause a short. I don't think that plug would burn but the one coser to the Fire Wall behind it would burn.

Over tightening the Glow Plugs can also cause a short.
Attached Thumbnails
Beru loop style glow plug source?-glow-plug-filiment-4-apr-13.jpg   Beru loop style glow plug source?-glow-plug-filiment-2-apr-13.jpg  
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Last edited by Diesel911; 04-16-2013 at 11:30 PM.
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  #10  
Old 04-16-2013, 11:33 PM
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No comment on the plugs, but as a guy who had a serious neck injury from having been rear=ended, I will say that the lack of headrests can cause serious neck injuries in an accident. I had a headrest yet still suffered injury.
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  #11  
Old 04-17-2013, 12:17 AM
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What a great bunch of suggestions. Thanks so much everyone. In my case, the failure of the Boschs wasn't a short, but an open circuit somewhere other than the loop (the loop is fine). Basically, the center post is no longer connected to the loop.

I think Diesel 911 is onto something regarding overtightening them. I didn't use a torque wrench, but I had read on some MB literature to tighten the old style to 5 mkg= 50 Nm = 35 ft lbs. So that is what I tried to guesstimate. As part of this effort, I have now read more current recommendations of torques about 2/3 that amount. So I was aiming for too high of a torque value, and I might have been wildly off from it. I bet I overtightened them, which in combination with overly high temps, caused a failure.

I took the suggestion above to poke around Ebay a bit more. There are so many different names for these and part numbers that it wasn't trivial. But in the end, I found a completed auction from several months ago which nobody bid on. I contacted the vendor, and they still had them. So I am in luck! I was able to get a bunch of them today at a very fair price. It was a serendipity that the first Ebay vendor cancelled on me. I got a much better deal now.

I do now know who the OEM vendor was. I have plenty of MB documents that allude to both bosch and beru filament/loop style plugs. So I honestly think both would qualify as OEM. For my particular car, coming off the assembly line in 1968, it is hard to know which brand it had. Today, it would be easy to tell if someone has access to a dealer with one in stock, because the Bosch are black and the Beru are metallic.

Yeah, the headrest thing is definitely a safety concern. I am far from a daredevil, but I do make certain decisions which enhance the "fun" in my life, at the detriment of my safety. I would say mountain biking is up there on that list. And driving an old car with outdated safety equipment is also on that list.

As an aside, I figured out the dimensions of the reamer for these old style GPs. There is an old document on unimog om616 glow plugs that I found, and it describes the reamer. 11 mm diameter, and 55 mm long (from the surface where the GP nut sits). I plan to use a 7/16 inch drill, and mark it at 55 mm to ensure I don't go in too far. I don't think I have much carbon in there (due to the hot temps and ease of GP removal), but it cannot hurt to double check. And this will be almost as good as the proper tool at WAY less cost.

Diesel911 has an old thread on whether to lubricate the threads of the GPs, and there seemed to be some contrasting documents. In this very old OM636/OM621 document that I tracked down somewhere, MB recommends "graphited oil" on the threads. I plan to use some sort of antisieze. And a torque wrench!
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My 1987 300TD wagon was sold and my 2003 W210 E320 wagon was totaled (sheds tear).
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  #12  
Old 05-07-2013, 12:44 AM
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So I just wanted to close the book on this thread. I installed my "new" Beru loop GPs which were made in W. Germany (so a few years old, ha ha). They are definitely better made than the current Bosch loop plugs from India. They have insulating material (maybe glass?) to keep soot from bridging portions of the plug, which Diesel911 mentioned above. Unlike something I said in my last post, these old Beru plugs are black like the Bosch's. I have no idea if newly manufacturered Beru plugs are identical to what I got on Ebay, but I am pretty happy with them.

I also decided to clean all of the bendy connectors between the plugs with steel wool. They had 45 years of grime on them, so it was probably overdue. I don't know why it didn't occur to me to do this last time. Anyway, it was an easy job which greatly sped up the glow process. I now get red glowing on my salt shaker indicator in about 8 seconds, which is 1/2 as long as before.

I used antiseize when installing the plugs, as I found an old MB document saying you should use graphited oil. 35 ft-lbs is the correct torque for these older plugs. Thanks again everyone for your help. It is nice to have the car running again. Now, I can work more on resolving why my car runs so warm.
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1968 220D, w115, /8, OM615, Automatic transmission.
My 1987 300TD wagon was sold and my 2003 W210 E320 wagon was totaled (sheds tear).
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  #13  
Old 05-07-2013, 01:17 AM
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I still have a few of those loop style NOS. My dad used to sell those a lot. I think we only have like 10 left still in boxes. Bosch as i remember yellow box.

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