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#1
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Vacuum pump ball bearings fell out. Now what?
We were diagnosing a tapping sound and found the vac pump is blown. All 12 ball bearings are gone. The engine still runs fine (I hope) I've looked at a bunch of the vac pump failure threads, but am not sure what to do now? Are all the bearings in the oil pan now? Should I drain the oil and/or drop the pan to see if all 12 bearings are there? Or would they not make it back to the pan?
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85' 300D |
#2
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Yes, drop the pan and get them all. You should account for every last one.
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http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...aman/Fleet.jpg Peach Parts W124.128 User Group. 80 280SL 85 300SD 87 300TD 92 300D 2.5 Turbo 92 300TE 4Matic |
#3
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pics? buy some lottery tickets.
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85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now 83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD! 83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked |
#4
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^^^What he said. Even one ball bearing in the oil pan can work its way through to the oil pump or timing chain and virtually destroy the engine.
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-Louis '87 300D Anthracite |
#5
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Also pull the screen off the bottom of the oil pump and look for balls in there.
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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K 1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild 1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K 1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor 2014 Kubota L3800 tractor 1964 VW bug "Lifes too short to drive a boring car" |
#6
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What's the damage on the follower arm like? Has it made a mess of the timing device?
With any luck you'll find all 12 bearings in the lower pan. I have my fingers crossed for you. You also need to check the timing device and the bushing for the intermediate shaft before refitting a repaired or replacement vacuum pump.
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver 1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone 1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy! 1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits! |
#7
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I think what was meant was to check the End Play of the Timer (that connects to the intermediate Shaft).
Also take a good look at that shaft that connects to the Piston up where it goes through the Piston. If the Arm returns too far it can crack the area where it attaches to the Piston. I hope I picked the right thread on that. Repeat broke new vacuum pump second vacuum pump, help! on a trip-Toronto - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum There is one Person who said they replaced the Bearing with another Bearing. But, I don't recall them saying what bearing they used. I do remember that they made sure they got one with a lot of Ball Bearings inside. I am also curious. Your 1985 should have had the Vacuum Pump that has the shields that cover the Bearing. There is Metal Washer on each side of the Bearing.
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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel |
#8
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Got the oil pan off today. 11 bearings found I did fine some magnetic metal bits in the pan and what looked like bits of shell of something that was chromed. Could the 12th bearing have been chewed up? So, I guess we have to ask ourselves. Do we feel lucky?
I saw no signs of a metal shield on the bearings. I did find bits of plastic in the oil pan. Also checked endplay on the 'rollercoaster' I got 0.010" Go ahead and replace the bushing? Some pictures. As you can see the rollercoaster started to eat into the arm. We are going to buy a new vac pump. I can't see any damage on the engine side.
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85' 300D |
#9
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0.01 inch = 0.254mm
The limits are 0.05mm to 0.012mm (see here for example More than you are likely to ever want to know about OM61X piston vacuum pumps) My advice is to change the bushing as well as the pump - at the moment the combined cost of a sealing kit and a new cam follower arm is more than some prices for a complete new pump. It would be nice to find that last ball bearing...
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver 1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone 1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy! 1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits! |
#10
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Hi, all. This is jubjub's brother and owner of the 85 300D with blown vacuum pump. I will order the new bushing to get timing device endplay back within spec (0.05-0.12mm), and I will buy a new or rebuilt vacuum pump. While I want to find that one last ball bearing, I'm not prepared to pull the engine and start tearing it down. I'm going to gamble on this one (famous last words, I know).
I found a company on eBay selling rebuilt vacuum pump. The one for my car is $250US with an included core charge of $40, so I am at $210 for a rebuilt pump. I emailed the seller to inquire about the bearings used. He simply said they are original type. I pressed him about the construction of the bearing (plastic or metal cage), and he responded that he did not know, and that they have never had a problem with the pumps. Has anyone dealt with bmwmercedesautoparts before? I'd like to save $90 by buying the rebuilt unit. Regards, Jurgen |
#11
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I would put a magnet in the bottom of the oil pan to hopefully grab the missing ball next time it passes by. You can also try fishing for it with a "small magnet on a flex stick" like Sears sells. You might also consider using an electric vacuum pump. Some VW's have one for their brake booster that might work.
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#12
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Sounds like you're a betting man. I think I'd be inclined to go that route too. I think that there is a pretty good chance that the remaining ball bearing is lodged somewhere safe.
But it would also be a good idea to take steps to prevent it from getting sucked into the oil pump should it find its way into the sump. The pickup looks something like this. If you were to get some rare earth magnets you can arrange them in the sump to protect the pickup. If you estimate the position of the pickup (blue) and then arrange the magnets (red) like so... ...you could be pretty much assured that you'd trap any remaining balls as well as any other ferrous materials that might get down to that area and otherwise potentially make it through the screen. Just a thought. I think I'd also be inclined to pull the pan at the next oil change and inspect. If the ball is there you can really rest easy, and if not, it's pretty good confirmation that the ball is safely wedged somewhere in the engine.
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Current Stable
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#13
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When my vac pump grenaded, after it was all back together, oil changed, I put a stack-o-magnets on the oil drain plug and drove for about 500 miles. Changed oil again. Collected all but one ball. Been driving for about 150K since then. IMHO? Carry on and don't worry about it. The pan is aluminum on my car, magnets no sticky on there, gotta use drain plug.
Rgds, Chris W. '95 E300D, 396K
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Objects in closer are mirror than they appear. |
#14
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It has been a while since I last posted here. I replaced the vacuum pump, and upon starting the car noticed it had a pronounced ticking from the vacuum pump area. Before replacing the pump, I measured the end play of the intermediate shaft and the reading was twice the maximum specification. I believe this excessive end play resulted in failure of the original vacuum pump and left unchecked, will destroy the replacement.
Reading an old thread here, one fellow mentioned removing the timing device by prying the chain off the timing device with screwdrivers. I am considering this option to avoid removing the injection pump. What I wish to do is remove tension from the chain (remove tensioner bolt), and if necessary, remove the camshaft sprocket, so that the chain can easily be removed from the timing device. From there, it seems replacing the intermediate shaft bushing would be straightforward. What says the council? I realize removing the injection pump is the recommended procedure, but if one fellow removed the timing device from the front, so can I. However, he never posted the results of his work, so maybe he did NOT get the timing device reinstalled. Jurgen |
#15
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Quote:
...you might get away with locking the governor by removing a plug and fitting a wheel bolt though (I can show this in a picture if need be)... ...and then you need to lock both the crank and the cam... ...but - well - I don't fancy your chances.
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver 1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone 1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy! 1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits! |
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