Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-02-2013, 03:42 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 1,717
In a Bind

So, posted a W.T.B. advert, but since this is my daily driver, in a bind, so figure the extra coverage might help.

I decided on Saturday to replace my U.C.A. as tires are squealing in the University parking garage ramps. Each side took about an hour, however, I was tired and not thinking when I believed the manual saying the sway bar bolt takes 65 foot pounds. So now I have to replace the sway bar. Tried an extractor, but never got that far as bolt is too hard to punch and the break means the bit is walking. Tried a 8mm drill bit, but it is as useless as a wood stick because of the hardened steel. Now the only thing to show after an hour is a chewed up end of the sway bar... I rather just replace and be done. So, anyone have a front W123 wagen sway bar?

Thank you in advance!
__________________
Current fleet:

1985 Mercedes-Benz 280TE - Current project and hopefully by mid May daily driver.

1985 Mercedes-Benz 300TDT - Rear ended 23 September 2016.

1979 Mercedes-Benz 300TD - Parted out.

1971 Volkswagen Sunroof Squareback with F.I. - in need of full restoration.

1971 Volkswagen Squareback automatic with F.I. - Waiting on logistics to get to Texas.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-02-2013, 03:59 PM
sixto's Avatar
smoke gets in your eyes
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 20,640
Uhh... you're aware just about everything on the firewall including the brake booster and master cylinder has to come off to replace the front sway bar, right? Check the archives for alternatives but I understand welding on a new end is the more rational choice.

Sixto
87 300D
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-02-2013, 04:41 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 1,717
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixto View Post
Uhh... you're aware just about everything on the firewall including the brake booster and master cylinder has to come off to replace the front sway bar, right? Check the archives for alternatives but I understand welding on a new end is the more rational choice.

Sixto
87 300D
I have already started, though the battery tray has me stuck... Got to now by a Dremel and cut it off. Filed for an hour and not making progress. Hoping to be able to wiggle the brake lines over, as don't have another brake cap or inner tube.

The repair ends are for 24mm, not 25mm. That mean paying a machine shop with limited Student funds to enlarge and weld. Spring steel isn't something that is every day welding, B.T.W..
__________________
Current fleet:

1985 Mercedes-Benz 280TE - Current project and hopefully by mid May daily driver.

1985 Mercedes-Benz 300TDT - Rear ended 23 September 2016.

1979 Mercedes-Benz 300TD - Parted out.

1971 Volkswagen Sunroof Squareback with F.I. - in need of full restoration.

1971 Volkswagen Squareback automatic with F.I. - Waiting on logistics to get to Texas.

Last edited by Adriel; 09-02-2013 at 04:43 PM. Reason: Edit
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-02-2013, 06:03 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 1,717
So, went out and bought a Dremel, going off a friends suggestion of possibly being able to flatten the area. Well, did flatten, but the Dremel got too hot for my liking. I have the hardest drill bit, and just not biting in. There is no other drill bit harder, therefore, if I can't drill the pilot hole, I can't get the extractor started to turn out the broken bit. It also means I can't buy a 8mm drill bit and drill it out. Only option is spend a week and pull the sway bar. Also, need to find one, hopefully used.
__________________
Current fleet:

1985 Mercedes-Benz 280TE - Current project and hopefully by mid May daily driver.

1985 Mercedes-Benz 300TDT - Rear ended 23 September 2016.

1979 Mercedes-Benz 300TD - Parted out.

1971 Volkswagen Sunroof Squareback with F.I. - in need of full restoration.

1971 Volkswagen Squareback automatic with F.I. - Waiting on logistics to get to Texas.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-02-2013, 06:12 PM
Stretch's Avatar
...like a shield of steel
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
Posts: 14,396
Sorry to hear of the troubles.

Try a cobalt drill bit with lots of cutting oil and a very slow speed.

(Just in case #1 => The spec for the bolt is 65 Nm - that's just under 48 ft lbs)
(Just in case #2 => wagon W123 sway bars have a larger diameter than the other variants)
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-02-2013, 06:27 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 1,717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
Sorry to hear of the troubles.

Try a cobalt drill bit with lots of cutting oil and a very slow speed.

(Just in case #1 => The spec for the bolt is 65 Nm - that's just under 48 ft lbs)
(Just in case #2 => wagon W123 sway bars have a larger diameter than the other variants)
Stretch, thank you so very much!

Yep, cobalt bit, for which paid a pretty penny for Irwin.

Ah! My manual states 65 foot pounds, so bet a mistranslation, as using Haynes as factory manual is very lacking. Only thing on the front end is how to remove the spindle, I.I.R.C.. Because of this, going to get paper factory manuals in the future; first need to address this and then see how the suspension is.

Tram insisted sway bars were all the same, however, I know better, as true across most if not all the manufactures. In this case, 24mm versus 25mm. I found one, we just need to find the bolts, which aren't standard: M8x1.5 or 1.75, 17mm hex, and 2mm shank. Just nuts!
__________________
Current fleet:

1985 Mercedes-Benz 280TE - Current project and hopefully by mid May daily driver.

1985 Mercedes-Benz 300TDT - Rear ended 23 September 2016.

1979 Mercedes-Benz 300TD - Parted out.

1971 Volkswagen Sunroof Squareback with F.I. - in need of full restoration.

1971 Volkswagen Squareback automatic with F.I. - Waiting on logistics to get to Texas.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-02-2013, 06:40 PM
Stretch's Avatar
...like a shield of steel
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
Posts: 14,396
PM sent
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-02-2013, 06:56 PM
whunter's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 17,353
Correction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adriel View Post
So, went out and bought a Dremel, going off a friends suggestion of possibly being able to flatten the area. Well, did flatten, but the Dremel got too hot for my liking. I have the hardest drill bit, and just not biting in. There is no other drill bit harder, therefore, if I can't drill the pilot hole, I can't get the extractor started to turn out the broken bit. It also means I can't buy a 8mm drill bit and drill it out. Only option is spend a week and pull the sway bar. Also, need to find one, hopefully used.
This is what I use..

A slow steady cut Solid carbide tool works great...

Straight Flute Die Drills (USA)

http://www.pts-tools.com/cgi/CGP2LMXE

Drill Bits Carbide Straight Flute, Spade Drill, Inch Number Letter, Metric



.
__________________
ASE Master Mechanic
asemastermechanic@juno.com

Prototype R&D/testing:
Thermal & Aerodynamic System Engineering (TASE) Senior vehicle instrumentation technician.
Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH).
Dynamometer.
Heat exchanger durability.
HV-A/C Climate Control.
Prototype Vehicle build.
Prototype Fleet Durability
Prototype vehicle instrumentation.
Technical Quality Auditor.
Automotive Technical Writer

1973 300D
1973 309D - stolen
1978 280SE
1980 240D
1983 300D
1984 190D
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-02-2013, 07:07 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wilmington, NC by the Atlantic ocean
Posts: 2,389
Another option:

This often works well but each situation is different, your mileage may vary, etc.......

Get a nut of about the right size for the broken bolt. Weld it onto the stub (maybe just the end will be visible) of the broken bolt. WHILE IT'S STILL HOT back out the bolt. If you don't have access to welding gear have a mobile welder come out. It'll still be quicker and cheaper. Be sure the car is up high enough for the welder to get in there and make sure you have a reasonably clean and dry surface for him/her to work off of - it'll be cheaper.

Dan
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-02-2013, 08:35 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 1,717
Thank you all for your help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by whunter View Post
Hmmm, well trouble is, I spend $20 and another two hours, and the bit walks around and in the same place. All I have left is couple heater hoses I am hoping I can squeeze by, the master cylinder and booster, and maybe the vacuum lines. Then can undo the sway bar and get the old out. New will soon be on its way.

This has been somewhat of a positive situation, as the battery tray needs attention (caught just in time as major surface rust, but no holes), the body under the tray needs a good cleaning, and the sway bar mounts are hard as rocks. Yes, I could go many more miles with hard sway bar mounts, but will help improve the ride quality for which Mercedes is known for. Might even help with the passenger side sag.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Stokes View Post
Another option:

This often works well but each situation is different, your mileage may vary, etc.......

Get a nut of about the right size for the broken bolt. Weld it onto the stub (maybe just the end will be visible) of the broken bolt. WHILE IT'S STILL HOT back out the bolt. If you don't have access to welding gear have a mobile welder come out. It'll still be quicker and cheaper. Be sure the car is up high enough for the welder to get in there and make sure you have a reasonably clean and dry surface for him/her to work off of - it'll be cheaper.

Dan
Dan, that work when the bolt is proud. In this case, it is recessed a good 10mm into the sway bar. Though, will keep this in mind!
__________________
Current fleet:

1985 Mercedes-Benz 280TE - Current project and hopefully by mid May daily driver.

1985 Mercedes-Benz 300TDT - Rear ended 23 September 2016.

1979 Mercedes-Benz 300TD - Parted out.

1971 Volkswagen Sunroof Squareback with F.I. - in need of full restoration.

1971 Volkswagen Squareback automatic with F.I. - Waiting on logistics to get to Texas.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-03-2013, 02:34 AM
Stretch's Avatar
...like a shield of steel
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
Posts: 14,396
I can't know for sure but I get the feeling that you've run the bit at too high a speed.

A cobalt drill bit is essentially a normal bit with a coating on it - if you drill with this at a high speed - allow it to get hot - the coating gets gone. You should operate these bits at a slow hand drill type of speed with lots of cutting oil / even WD40 (if you have to) to keep it cool.
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-03-2013, 02:40 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 1,717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
I can't know for sure but I get the feeling that you've run the bit at too high a speed.

A cobalt drill bit is essentially a normal bit with a coating on it - if you drill with this at a high speed - allow it to get hot - the coating gets gone. You should operate these bits at a slow hand drill type of speed with lots of cutting oil / even WD40 (if you have to) to keep it cool.
Well, seems like a good possibility, as did some in the beginning but not now. I didn't use much "cutting" fluid and did go full speed a couple times, though most times less than a quarter trigger; figured low speed give more control. Does heat kill any drill bits? Might explain why my metric set went bad...

I use A.T.F. for cutting fluid now, as have a big bottle in Sandy Eggo so don't feel like buying another. I use A.T.F. from an antique oiling can, and this time has about a third of Kroil. The can lost its propellant, so jabbed a Phillips screw driver through it and poured some out.

I have most of the master cylinder out and just got to access the one nut, once that is off and the booster out of the way, can start in pulling the sway bar. I can fiddle for hours with no results or just get it done and over with. Say got about two hours at most in, and relaxed pace; hast makes waste! Figure even if it takes eight hours, way more enjoyable than in the wheel well going deaf and hurting! My arthritis no longer likes me being in a ball...
__________________
Current fleet:

1985 Mercedes-Benz 280TE - Current project and hopefully by mid May daily driver.

1985 Mercedes-Benz 300TDT - Rear ended 23 September 2016.

1979 Mercedes-Benz 300TD - Parted out.

1971 Volkswagen Sunroof Squareback with F.I. - in need of full restoration.

1971 Volkswagen Squareback automatic with F.I. - Waiting on logistics to get to Texas.

Last edited by Adriel; 09-03-2013 at 02:45 AM. Reason: Es ist spate!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-04-2013, 04:11 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Out in the Boonies of Hot, Dry, Dusty, Windy Nevada
Posts: 9,585
As long as you are replacing the Sway Bar, it would be a good time to replace the 2 large Bushings on the Firewall. one under the Battery and one under the Brake booster.

Part# 123-323-12-85 or World pak# W0133-1807027, this is for the wagon 300TD.

Charlie
__________________
there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-04-2013, 07:09 AM
Stretch's Avatar
...like a shield of steel
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
Posts: 14,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adriel View Post
Well, seems like a good possibility, as did some in the beginning but not now. I didn't use much "cutting" fluid and did go full speed a couple times, though most times less than a quarter trigger; figured low speed give more control. Does heat kill any drill bits? Might explain why my metric set went bad...
Heat does indeed kill the cutting edge - have a look on youtube and watch some hardcore machine shop milling and drilling action - there will be a lot of coolant being sprayed on the working area (not that you need that much but probably a lot more than you used)
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-04-2013, 02:07 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 1,717
Quote:
Originally Posted by charmalu View Post
As long as you are replacing the Sway Bar, it would be a good time to replace the 2 large Bushings on the Firewall. one under the Battery and one under the Brake booster.

Part# 123-323-12-85 or World pak# W0133-1807027, this is for the wagon 300TD.

Charlie
Carlie, they are already ordered and are $4 each (Febi). Good point, and hope others do the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
Heat does indeed kill the cutting edge - have a look on youtube and watch some hardcore machine shop milling and drilling action - there will be a lot of coolant being sprayed on the working area (not that you need that much but probably a lot more than you used)
I know it can on machining, but didn't realize need to do it for ANY drilling. Believe it or not, I have some training in machining, just on the horizontal and vertical lathes. Made about a dozen oil pressure valves for air cooled Volkswagens and helped with a gear in a Jaguar window regulator. Man, that is a story!

Yesterday, made some progress. Got the booster out and the mounts un-done. Found out the manual is wrong, and have to remove the U.C.A. I just installed. Bummer... But, practice makes perfect! Also found when the master cylinder was replaced, the brake fluid wasn't drained from the booster. That will shed a couple pounds!
__________________
Current fleet:

1985 Mercedes-Benz 280TE - Current project and hopefully by mid May daily driver.

1985 Mercedes-Benz 300TDT - Rear ended 23 September 2016.

1979 Mercedes-Benz 300TD - Parted out.

1971 Volkswagen Sunroof Squareback with F.I. - in need of full restoration.

1971 Volkswagen Squareback automatic with F.I. - Waiting on logistics to get to Texas.

Last edited by Adriel; 09-04-2013 at 02:11 PM. Reason: Nicht gut!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page