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  #16  
Old 08-19-2014, 04:48 PM
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I understand now.

The 1995 pump is mechanical/vacuum controlled.

Follow the procedure and you'll be good. The electrical tools from MB aren't necessary.

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  #17  
Old 08-19-2014, 05:01 PM
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Ya, no way can you do a timing chain replacement and not retime the pump.
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  #18  
Old 08-19-2014, 05:05 PM
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The second paragraph of his post contains the 1995 and OM606 text. - meaning its an E300D W124 - full mechanical injection pump with idle control
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  #19  
Old 08-19-2014, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulfiqar View Post
The second paragraph of his post contains the 1995 and OM606 text. - meaning its an E300D W124 - full mechanical injection pump with idle control
Yep, identical mechanics to the OM603 IP.
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  #20  
Old 08-19-2014, 05:40 PM
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Ok, I'm still confused on the procedure, I've looked through the FSM for both the 95 E300 and an earlier 93 300D. There are several references, one entitled 7.1-8240 "Testing Start and Delivery with Position sensor" ; 7.1-8300 "Adjusting Start of Delivery Following Test", both of which involve using a position sensor with A and B flashing lights, adjusting the crank to 15 degrees ATDC, slackening IP flange bolts, then turning the adjustment screw until both lamps "A" and "B" light up, then tightening everything back up. If this doesn't work, then the protocol is to remove the pump and readjust the timing gear. Am I on target? Do I need to reference the 603 IP protocol?
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  #21  
Old 08-19-2014, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clickclak View Post
Ok, I'm still confused on the procedure, I've looked through the FSM for both the 95 E300 and an earlier 93 300D. There are several references, one entitled 7.1-8240 "Testing Start and Delivery with Position sensor" ; 7.1-8300 "Adjusting Start of Delivery Following Test", both of which involve using a position sensor with A and B flashing lights, adjusting the crank to 15 degrees ATDC, slackening IP flange bolts, then turning the adjustment screw until both lamps "A" and "B" light up, then tightening everything back up. If this doesn't work, then the protocol is to remove the pump and readjust the timing gear. Am I on target? Do I need to reference the 603 IP protocol?
The AB lights will tell you the same exact thing a lock pin will tell you when its locked into position.

The easement the AB lights give you is that you rotate engine to 15ATDC install the AB light probe into the pump, rotate the pump from the jackscrew so both lamps illuminate.

With the flat pin lock you need to sort of eyeball the slot first so its kinda in the middle of the port with your engine at 15 ATDC, then check with the lock pin that it actually snaps onto the pump slot. You cannot install the pin and then rotate the engine.

Your choice - if you want to buy the 500 dollar AB lights or the 40 dollar lock pin or get creative with a stiff wooden dowel (free of charge)

The stroboscopic tool you see in the FSM is very pricey - it actually acts like a gas engine timing light. It would be false practice to own that tool unless you run a business repairing these cars. Once you get the timing correct on installation and are positively sure the injector break pressures are good then the timing will be under control.

If the injector break pressure is too low - the injection timing will be advanced for that cylinder, if too high then that cylinder would work with retard timing.
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  #22  
Old 08-19-2014, 06:09 PM
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Thanks, I have access to the AB timing light so I'll give it try.
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  #23  
Old 08-19-2014, 10:23 PM
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Checked the timing with an AB light tool, the lights matched at 16 degrees ATDC, which falls within the spec of 15 deg +/- 1 deg ATDC. Found a loose vacuum fitting on the side of the vacuum control valve with a tube coming from the transmission. After reconnecting it, the surging went away, then reappeared later. Blipped the throttle and it evened out. After running more errands it behaves better, but my hunch is the rubber connection on the side of the VCV is bad and needs replacement, so I found a pack at the local auto store and will change it out in the morning, then see how it runs. Thanks for everyones input and assistance.
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  #24  
Old 08-20-2014, 11:58 AM
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Update: Changed out the 90 deg elbow on the VCV. Started and warmed it up, injectors still very loud. Started A/C and drove a bit to a stop light then the idle began its loping again. After stopping briefly and restarting it evened out. My hunch is one or more of the reman injectors is bad, perhaps break pressure is too low, so the old ones are going back in and the new ones are going on the shelf for the moment as an experiment.
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  #25  
Old 08-20-2014, 12:00 PM
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You know you have to have the remans poptested before they go in right?
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  #26  
Old 08-20-2014, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clickclak View Post
Update: Changed out the 90 deg elbow on the VCV. Started and warmed it up, injectors still very loud. Started A/C and drove a bit to a stop light then the idle began its loping again. After stopping briefly and restarting it evened out. My hunch is one or more of the reman injectors is bad, perhaps break pressure is too low, so the old ones are going back in and the new ones are going on the shelf for the moment as an experiment.
I see that you are trying to chase vacuum leaks as they are the culprits - they are not - the engine should idle steadily with everything including the alternator removed. The ELR controller's job is to smooth out the idle speed and to keep the rpm controlled when you shift to D, switch on A/C, turn the wheel etc.

Your loping issue can only be pointed to fuelling problems. I would suggest you first run a can of purge through it to help the pump fuel rack. It sounds like the rack is pulling to shut off position and then the ELR pulls it back trying to control it.

Have you tried to set the base idle speed? ELR disconnected it should idle at 560 rpm (measure 1350 hz on the rpm connector)

1340 x 60 /144 = 558 rpm - 144 = tooth count on the flywheel sensor.
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  #27  
Old 08-20-2014, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulfiqar View Post
Have you tried to set the base idle speed? ELR disconnected it should idle at 560 rpm (measure 1350 hz on the rpm connector)

1340 x 60 /144 = 558 rpm - 144 = tooth count on the flywheel sensor.
Thanks for the trick!

I need to do this on my car but did not have access to a strobe tach. That is perfect, I have a Fluke 87 that should handle that no problem.

I had redone the needles on the gauges but somehow I got the tach needle back in the wrong spot. It's idling at 400/min according to the gauge so now I know how I am going to fix that.

That also explains why a gas tach will never work on a Diesel and buries at 7k as soon as you start the engine, gas has 3 pulses/rev (for a 6 cyl) and Diesel has 144.
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Last edited by jay_bob; 08-20-2014 at 08:18 PM.
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  #28  
Old 08-21-2014, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winmutt View Post
You know you have to have the remans poptested before they go in right?
No, I didn't. Is that in the FSM? I assumed they were pop-tested at the factory when they were remanufactured. I know, the Bosch's are crappy, but its all I can find. Kerma TDI is out of the nozzles from Bosio, and I don't have access to a pop tester.
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  #29  
Old 08-21-2014, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulfiqar View Post
I see that you are trying to chase vacuum leaks as they are the culprits - they are not - the engine should idle steadily with everything including the alternator removed. The ELR controller's job is to smooth out the idle speed and to keep the rpm controlled when you shift to D, switch on A/C, turn the wheel etc.

Your loping issue can only be pointed to fuelling problems. I would suggest you first run a can of purge through it to help the pump fuel rack. It sounds like the rack is pulling to shut off position and then the ELR pulls it back trying to control it.

Have you tried to set the base idle speed? ELR disconnected it should idle at 560 rpm (measure 1350 hz on the rpm connector)

1340 x 60 /144 = 558 rpm - 144 = tooth count on the flywheel sensor.
I'll get some Lubro Moly tomorrow and try it this weekend. I have two other family cars down and am struggling to put all the fires out, just bad timing.

I did disconnect the ELR at the back of the pump by pulling the two pin connector off and it went to appx 500 rpm by reading the tach. I have no clue on how to do anything else as I'm not equipped with the tools or protocol other than the FSM. I'm beginning to think the injectors are the culprit and I should just pull them and put the older originals back in and leave this for another day. This problem is new and didn't occur prior to the injector change and timing chain replacement.

Regarding the vacuum versus fueling issue, I did notice the following: when I put it into park or neutral, the loping starts in short order. Going down the shifter and waiting for each gear position to engage, it happens only in those two positions when sitting still with foot on brake pedal. Sometimes it starts at a stoplight while waiting. Hence my suspicion that a vacuum problem is the likely culprit, whether bad hose, VCV, modulator on the tranny etc.

Last edited by clickclak; 08-21-2014 at 02:10 AM.
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  #30  
Old 08-21-2014, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clickclak View Post
I'll get some Lubro Moly tomorrow and try it this weekend. I have two other family cars down and am struggling to put all the fires out, just bad timing.

I did disconnect the ELR at the back of the pump by pulling the two pin connector off and it went to appx 500 rpm by reading the tach. I have no clue on how to do anything else as I'm not equipped with the tools or protocol other than the FSM. I'm beginning to think the injectors are the culprit and I should just pull them and put the older originals back in and leave this for another day. This problem is new and didn't occur prior to the injector change and timing chain replacement.

Regarding the vacuum versus fueling issue, I did notice the following: when I put it into park or neutral, the loping starts in short order. Going down the shifter and waiting for each gear position to engage, it happens only in those two positions when sitting still with foot on brake pedal. Sometimes it starts at a stoplight while waiting. Hence my suspicion that a vacuum problem is the likely culprit, whether bad hose, VCV, modulator on the tranny etc.
Its not a vacuum problem, you might as well disconnect the vacuum pump lines and plug them up (trans will shift with full pressure - read as kick into gear)

At first you need to set the idle speed correctly on a hot engine - its the little screw and locknut near the ELR solenoid. Once set then connect the ELR back. If you still have lopey idle - then a good bet is that somewhere the fuel system is faulty, firstly check the return banjo at the back of the pump - the OM606 had the fisher price quality item - its super flimsy, the older ones had the all steel item.

Does the engine lope even with being fed fuel from a jug?

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