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  #1  
Old 08-31-2014, 06:05 PM
Chief Village Id10t
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 358
Turbo drain tube again

Hello all,

So I have read all of the turbo drain tube oil leak postings I can find, but I still have a slightly different problem that I would like to ask.

My 85 300D has always had a small leak at the turbo drain tube junction (where the upper and lower tubes meet). When I rebuilt the turbo last spring, I thought I had the leak solved but it has come back in a BIG way. Like 4 quarts lost in 100 miles!

So I have the upper tube off and I am noticing that the lower tube slides up and down in its hole about 1/2 inch. I have not removed this tube, so this leads me to believe that something the previous owner did created this situation. I did notice a clean flexible grommet and upper O-ring.

From watching the videos I could find about installing the lower tube, it appears that when the lower tube is installed correctly it is able to move side-to-side. But it shouldn't be able to move up and down, right? I figure what has happened is the tube does not leak until vibration causes the lower tube to slide downward creating an opening for leaking oil.

If the tube is not supposed to be moving up and down, I figure what happened is the PO worked on the tube and actually got it pushed too far into the hole. It moves so freely that there is no way the bottom O-ring is doing any sealing.

Please fill-in any detail you may have about all of this. My current plan is to attempt to get the lower tube out and reseat it. I really don't want to have to remove the oil pan; I know one person said they removed the lower tube by attaching a hose clamp and prying upward. Has anyone tried putting a hose over the top of the lower tube, attached a couple of hose clamps and pulled the hose upwards?

If I should just bite the big one and drop the oil pan I will; looking for alternatives.

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1986 300SDL, 240K+ miles
1985 300D KaliKar, 270K+ miles
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  #2  
Old 08-31-2014, 06:30 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: West of Ft. Worth. TX
Posts: 4,186
It sounds like both o-rings need replacing, at a minimum. Check for possible nicks or abrasions that would damage the o-rings when you reassemble. I had to purchase a new lower tube for mine as previous "mechanics" had dented and bent it severely.

No need to drop the oil pan unless the grommet and lower o-ring are so severely hardened that some of the chunks fall in when you remove the lower tube. Do you know how to tie a clove hitch? I just tied a couple of clove hitches around the lower tube with light rope then wrapped the other end around a large pry bar. Found a judicious spot to pry upwards and it popped out very easily.

I've seen other methods, including the hose clamp, but they all seemed to run the risk of damaging the lower tube. Besides, a couple of clove hitches is multiple times easier!

I believe there is thread where someone mentions changing out the o-rings and grommet in 10 minutes. Even with the engine in the car, it shouldn't take more than 30 min. with clean-up. If it does, you might be doing something the hard way.
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84 300SD 350K+ miles ( Blue Belle )
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  #3  
Old 09-01-2014, 12:07 AM
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Location: SF, CA, USA
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I would look in the exploded drawings to see exactly which parts are meant to be in that joint. maybe it is just the o-ring, not sure, but if it didn't go together correctly the last time, a visual reference may be in order!
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  #4  
Old 09-01-2014, 02:46 AM
1984 300SD
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 588
Sounds like the lower tube is not all the way up into the upper tube therefor the lower tube seal in the pan fitting is also not up and into position locking everything in place and tight. I use two apposed hose clamps on the lower tube then a crows foot on an extension under the hose clamps and pound up from below. This method has always worked for me.
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  #5  
Old 09-01-2014, 03:00 AM
Chief Village Id10t
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 358
So that raises a question:

If the bottom tube alone is present, should its o-ring seat into the grommet, or does it seat into a groove in the engine block? It seems like from the video I have seen, the tube seats into the block and the grommet just slides down to keep dirt out of the tube seating area. Is this correct?
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1986 300SDL, 240K+ miles
1985 300D KaliKar, 270K+ miles
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  #6  
Old 09-01-2014, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyfev1 View Post
So that raises a question:

If the bottom tube alone is present, should its o-ring seat into the grommet, or does it seat into a groove in the engine block? It seems like from the video I have seen, the tube seats into the block and the grommet just slides down to keep dirt out of the tube seating area. Is this correct?
I did mine like 5 years ago so My memory is very vague on the subject. But, I believe that the lower O-ring actually pops into an internal groove inside of the Grommet.

Maybe one of our Members has a Grommet and can look to see if the groove I mentioned is there.
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  #7  
Old 09-01-2014, 01:07 PM
Chief Village Id10t
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Blue View Post
It sounds like both o-rings need replacing, at a minimum. Check for possible nicks or abrasions that would damage the o-rings when you reassemble. I had to purchase a new lower tube for mine as previous "mechanics" had dented and bent it severely.

No need to drop the oil pan unless the grommet and lower o-ring are so severely hardened that some of the chunks fall in when you remove the lower tube. Do you know how to tie a clove hitch? I just tied a couple of clove hitches around the lower tube with light rope then wrapped the other end around a large pry bar. Found a judicious spot to pry upwards and it popped out very easily.
I have been trying this all morning with no success; rope just keeps slipping off. I am going to get some different rope (I was using 1/4" poly slick surface rope) and see if I get better results.
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1986 300SDL, 240K+ miles
1985 300D KaliKar, 270K+ miles
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  #8  
Old 09-01-2014, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyfev1 View Post
So that raises a question:

If the bottom tube alone is present, should its o-ring seat into the grommet, or does it seat into a groove in the engine block? It seems like from the video I have seen, the tube seats into the block and the grommet just slides down to keep dirt out of the tube seating area. Is this correct?
I used a Hose Clamp around the Tube and pried on the Hose Clamp and the result was it dented the Tube and the Tube and Grommet did not come out. So some of them are going to be in there really good.

Even after picking out as much as I could of the upper part of the Groment I decided to drop the Oil Pan and Push it all out from below by way of a Hydraulic Jack. That worked.
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  #9  
Old 09-01-2014, 05:10 PM
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Maybe try splitting a coolant hose, wrap around tube then hose clamp it to distribute the force before prying?
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  #10  
Old 09-01-2014, 08:25 PM
Chief Village Id10t
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Houston, TX
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Success!

Thanks to SD Blue's advice and me repeatedly trying, I was able to pop out the lower drain tube with a rope. My initial attempts were with a 1/4" poly rope which was too slick. A similar sized hemp rope popped it right out.

And then I found out some more details. I thought the grommet was OK because it looked OK. Boy was I wrong; it disintegrated. And there was no lower O-ring remaining.

So now I will clean everything up and get ready for reassembly. Of course I have just ordered a new oil pan gasket...put it on the shelf for now.
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1986 300SDL, 240K+ miles
1985 300D KaliKar, 270K+ miles

Last edited by mikeyfev1; 09-01-2014 at 08:34 PM. Reason: wrong attribution
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  #11  
Old 09-01-2014, 09:07 PM
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I see you found a rope that would work for you. I forgot to mention that a nylon rope would work or even jute.

That bottom o-ring fits into the block.

Be sure to lube the o-rings and grommet with assembly lube, vaseline or even k-y, before trying to assemble the drain tubes.

To reinstall, position the grommet a few inches up the tube and install the o-rings. Insert the lower end into the block and lean it outwards. Place the upper tube onto the lower tube and push down as far as it will go. Then move the tube into place and lift the upper tube untill it mates with the surface on the turbo housing and bolt it in place. Ensure that the lower tube is positioned where the bottom o-ring is in its detent (by feel) and push the grommet down. IIRC, I used the rounded side of 90 degree needle nose pliers to push the grommet down that last little bit.

Clean everything off with silicone spray and paper towels and you are good to go. Mine hasn't leaked in at least 5 years since doing this task.
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84 300SD 350K+ miles ( Blue Belle )
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  #12  
Old 09-02-2014, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funola View Post
Maybe try splitting a coolant hose, wrap around tube then hose clamp it to distribute the force before prying?
Well the Job is done and pushing it up through the bottom is a sure thing.

Then the Hose Calmp thing worked for some one else and did not dent thier Tube. Also the Hose Clamp did not slip it was just that the force used to pry on it did not move the Tube.
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  #13  
Old 09-02-2014, 02:16 PM
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I lubed the Lower O-ring with a generic STP that I keep on hand for stuff like that.
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  #14  
Old 09-06-2014, 09:27 AM
xaliscomex
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ventura County, CA
Posts: 383
The key here is to tap the lower turbo drain pipe into the upper secured(bolted down) drain pipe.

Kind of hard to tap those drain pipes together from underneath with oil pan on, but it can be done....the two pipes need to completely join...

A thump or change in sound will indicate that they are joined, thats where you need some sort of sound change to tell you that it is joined....It's a lot easier...vs. jamming or pushing using force without tapping and hoping that they are joined..hope this makes sense....


Order a new turbo drain pipe, grommets and rings seals. Remove the oil pan, follow the instructions below and reinstall oil pan using a brand new oil pan gasket...

I found the link to my turbo drain pipe install instructions. Good luck

Need help with turbo oil drain replacement (om617)
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  #15  
Old 09-06-2014, 12:27 PM
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I used long 3/8 extensions to tap the lower tube into the grommet. Pics are there also. There is a thread titled similar to "leak free engine". It has a useful strategy.

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