THE NEATEST top sider oil extraction system! - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

sloride · #46 12-05-2014, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

It depends on the liquid. engine oil, diesel, no. gasoline and low boiling point fuels, yes

Boiling Point - Fuels

Boiling point of Mobil 1 5W40 is 600F

http://s7d9.scene7.com/is/content/GenuinePartsCompany/1498139pdf?$PDF$

Great looking system. Only other comment I have on it is, I am sure everyone has heard of a explosion/fire at an oil refinery. They are almost always caused by human error and not a design flaw.

vstech · #47 12-05-2014, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

It depends on the liquid. engine oil, diesel, no. gasoline and low boiling point fuels, yes

Boiling Point - Fuels

Boiling point of Mobil 1 5W40 is 600F

http://s7d9.scene7.com/is/content/GenuinePartsCompany/1498139pdf?$PDF$

At atmospheric pressure.

Under a vacuum, the used motor oil which contains partially burned fuel, and broken down oil, and water vapor, and acids, and God only knows what else, could boil, separate, and or simply off gas liquids.

However, the system you are employing isn't subjecting the oil to much of a vacuum... The tank however is being evacuated to a high vacuum, and the warning raised is residual oil in the tank could produce flammable vapors, that under the rare conditions could burn or explode.

I recommend dropping the point and leaving it at a warning to consider at your own risk.

funola · #48 12-05-2014, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

At atmospheric pressure.

Under a vacuum, the used motor oil which contains partially burned fuel, and broken down oil, and water vapor, and acids, and God only knows what else, could boil, separate, and or simply off gas liquids.

However, the system you are employing isn't subjecting the oil to much of a vacuum... The tank however is being evacuated to a high vacuum, and the warning raised is residual oil in the tank could produce flammable vapors, that under the rare conditions could burn or explode.

I recommend dropping the point and leaving it at a warning to consider at your own risk.

My point is (and was) that vapor cannot form from the residual oil in the tank at the vacuum levels and temperatures that I am working with, therefore there is no danger of an explosion.

Here are some info to back up my point:
From this pdf

http://nzic.org.nz/ChemProcesses/energy/7B.pdf

"An oil which will normally boil at 500C will boil at 300C under the very high
vacuum used. Boiling ranges are as follows:
Gasoline 40 - 190C
Kerosine 190 - 260C
Diesel 260 - 330C
Lube oil 330 - 400C under vacuum "

Per the above, under high vacuum, lube oil's boiling point can drop 200C to 330-400C, which is way higher than the temperature inside my tank. I.e., if I want to create vapor, I have to heat the tank to 300-400C while under a high vacuum.

Vacuum distillation is a process used to remove water from and reclaim used motor oil by taking advantage of the wide separation of boiling points between water and oil.

And from this site Vacuum Distillation for the Removal of Water and Other Volatile Contaminants

"Vacuum distillation is simply distillation at pressures below one atmosphere. Reduced pressure permits vaporization at reduced temperatures. For instance, at atmospheric pressure water boils at 212°F (100°C); but under vacuum (typically around 27" Hg) this boiling point can drop to 135°F (57°C) or lower."

If a vacuum alone will boil off oil, this process would not work.

Can someone with a background in Petroleum engineering or ME, scientist etc take a look at this and tell me if I should be concerned of an explosion? I don't want to die next time I do an oil change.

Simpler=Better · #49 12-05-2014, 01:03 PM

I'm not so much worried about the evacuation system, but I heard that you might use a lighter for illumination when checking your fuel can's fill level?

vstech · #50 12-05-2014, 01:07 PM

Call blackstone. The can give you an idea of what is in used oil and provide warnings about explosivity.

Shortsguy1 · #51 12-05-2014, 01:16 PM

Perhaps you could evacuate a volume (your helium tank or two), cap it, and then turn off the vacuum pump. Then use the existing vacuum to draw your oil. This would be slower, but perhaps safer if ignition is a concern. I guess it would take some trial and error to figure out what volume would be required to ensure that the oil was removed in a reasonable amount of time.

mach4 · #52 12-05-2014, 01:55 PM

I find it amusing to hear everyone trying to solve a nonexistent problem.

Let me try one...

Instead of using vacuum, use pressure. Plumb a port in your oil pan where you can introduce CO2 under about 14 pounds of pressure that will force the oil up through the dipstick into your topsider. CO2 is an ingredient in fire extinguishers, so that should make your critics happy! Now, be sure to introduce some gas before you hook up your tube or the critics will argue that the oxygen in the crankcase will exit with the oil still creating an explosive situation.

Oh, crap. I forgot CO2 is a greenhouse gas. Don't use that or you'll piss off the enviro nazis - better use argon instead...it's an inert gas. That should keep everyone happy...except maybe the members of the NAAUUNG. You know them, right? - National Association Against Unnecessary Use of Noble Gasses and their sister group PETIG (People for the Ethical Treatment of Inert Gas)

Do what you want. You probably have a higher likelihood of dying from human spontaneous combustion or getting hit by a meteor than from an oil explosion in a helium bottle.

Shortsguy1 · #53 12-05-2014, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mach4

I find it amusing to hear everyone trying to solve a nonexistent problem.

Let me try one...

Instead of using vacuum, use pressure. Plumb a port in your oil pan where you can introduce CO2 under about 14 pounds of pressure that will force the oil up through the dipstick into your topsider. CO2 is an ingredient in fire extinguishers, so that should make your critics happy! Now, be sure to introduce some gas before you hook up your tube or the critics will argue that the oxygen in the crankcase will exit with the oil still creating an explosive situation.

Oh, crap. I forgot CO2 is a greenhouse gas. Don't use that or you'll piss off the enviro nazis - better use argon instead...it's an inert gas. That should keep everyone happy...except maybe the members of the NAAUUNG. You know them, right? - National Association Against Unnecessary Use of Noble Gasses and their sister group PETIG (People for the Ethical Treatment of Inert Gas)

Do what you want. You probably have a higher likelihood of dying from human spontaneous combustion or getting hit by a meteor than from an oil explosion in a helium bottle.

OH SNAP!

Glad we can amuse. Perhaps we could get Mach4 to write an arduino program to measure the concentration of volatile gases in the He tank to ensure Funola never reaches the limits of combustion.

Kidding!

funola · #54 12-06-2014, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieselbenz1

The MSDS sheet as seen in this link

http://media.photobucket.com/user/Euclid_bucket/media/22017lg.jpg.html?filters[term]=santa&filters[primary]=images&filters[featured_media]=1341&sort=1&o=85

also states used engine oil vapours to be flamable. I had long waited to build a similar device that you made but my vacuum pump is only rated for general purpose air not flamable vapours I don't see any way to dismiss the dangers unless the pump is up to snuff.

Clicking on the link produced an error. Copy and paste the link led to Santa Claus

funola · #55 12-06-2014, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieselbenz1

All you have to do is just ask yourself every time you go to change your oil would it be ok it put an open flame on the intake of the vacuum tank. If you answered no then why take the chance with a pump that is not rated for the application. The point of ignition during a drawdown would be at the DC motors contacts then travel to greater concentrations and naturally be sucked into that tank.

Bang that's my take from experience.

So you had a bang? Please tell what happened.

dieselbenz1 · #56 12-06-2014, 02:35 PM

http://www.rosefoundation.org.za/docs/safetydatasheet.pdf

Ok hopefully this will work.

sloride · #57 12-06-2014, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieselbenz1

Definately going in the right direction with removing the exhaust 25 ft at ground or if elevated to 3 feet 10 feet as required by law. But you must consider a failure of the pumps diaphragm or seal in that event will the flammable gases be exposed to a source of ignition? How old is the pump will these fumes break down a seal faster than air? These are all taken into consideration with an intrinsically rated pump.

You did not add that if while draining the receiver (helium tank) you fell under it and 7-8 qts of oil fell in your mouth and you swallowed it that would be another problem with the design. As there is no provision for total leak proof transfer of evacuated oil

JRImrie · #58 12-15-2014, 03:56 PM

Funola very neat system! I have a concern though.
If one puts put oil with diesel fuel under vacuum at some point you could possibly create an explosive mixture and cause explosion even though diesel is not that volatile. I would say that if air is not introduced when extracting the oil you are probably OK. You may want to consider using your Mity Vac to pull the vacuum.

The system I use is a 12V North Star marine oil extractor runs off the battery which is connected to a 3 gallon bucket with a lid drilled to accept the discharge hose. I have the same concern with explosive limits on my system. Your method of draining the tank is much better than mine. I take the bucket with the lid on and dispose of the oil. One caution with my method be absolutely sure the discharge tubing is secured to the lid. The oil is pumped out in less than 30 seconds that is 7 liters.