Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-15-2014, 08:52 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Humble, TX
Posts: 50
I do not see the removal of the gear as more than an hour. R&R the pump is at least a 6 hour job. What am I missing? You did not elaborate as to why can you tell me a little more?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-16-2014, 06:59 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: MN
Posts: 1,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRImrie View Post
I do not see the removal of the gear as more than an hour. R&R the pump is at least a 6 hour job. What am I missing? You did not elaborate as to why can you tell me a little more?

set crank to 15 degrees after TDC
install the IP locking tool ( which you cannot do if the timing is off as much as you say it is )
remove the IP timing gear's bolt ( left hand threaded, turn clockwise to loosen )
remove the hard lines to the injectors
Remove the valve cover ( you might have to remove the injectors to get the cover off, I have not removed my VC, so I am not sure )
zip tie the chain to the cam sprocket
Lock the cams in place
remove the cam sprocket from the cam
remove the chain tensioner
use a thin strip of metal or plastic to move the chain off of the IP timing gear's teeth ( it will be hard to get enough clearance to do this without removing the IP shaft from it )
remove the IP timing gear and reinstall in the position you think will correct your problem

(since you could not lock the IP in place, you will have a hard time guessing where to reinstall the timing gear. If you can remove the gear, then you need to try to get something on the IP shaft to turn it to it's locking position and get it locked, without ruining the splines on the IP shaft )

re assemble everything and test the timing

did it work ? if not repeat

as I remember, you cannot get enough slack on the chain to slip the gear off the IP shaft. you have to be able to get the slack of the chain and be able to move the gear toward the engine to get it free of the chain and out.

You can screw up the timing of the cam during the procedure. The problem is that the cam should be locked at TDC and the IP can only be locked at 15 degrees after TDC. The IP's at rest position is not at it's timed/lock position. It will move off of it's timed/lock position if not held/locked in place.

If you do choose to try to remove the IP timing gear to adjust the IP timing, please take notes, and photos if possible, and report back to the forum.
__________________
Greg
2012 S350 BlueTEC 4Matic
2007 ML 320 CDI
2007 Leisure Travel Serenity
2006 Sprinter 432k
2005 E320 CDI
1998 SLK230 (teal)
1998 SLK230 (silver)
1996 E300D 99k, 30k on WVO
Previous:
1983 240D, on WVO
1982 300D, on WVO
1983 300CD, on WVO
1986 300SDL 237k, 25k on WVO (Deerslayer)
1991 350SDL 249k, 56k on WVO - Retired to a car spa in Phoenix
1983 380 SEC w/603 diesel, 8k on WVO
1996 E300D 351k, 177k on WVO
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-16-2014, 08:52 PM
sixto's Avatar
smoke gets in your eyes
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Eastern TN
Posts: 20,851
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregMN View Post
Lock the cams in place
How do you do this at 15*ATDC?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregMN View Post
remove the chain tensioner
use a thin strip of metal or plastic to move the chain off of the IP timing gear's teeth ( it will be hard to get enough clearance to do this without removing the IP shaft from it )
How to you get chain slack from the tensioner side to the IP side? The cams are locked so you have to turn the crank CCW. Can you gain enough slack to separate the chain from the IP timer before pistons touch valves? The safe bet is to pull the cams... or read the FSM if it has something to say about it

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregMN View Post
remove the IP timing gear and reinstall in the position you think will correct your problem
(since you could not lock the IP in place, you will have a hard time guessing where to reinstall the timing gear. If you can remove the gear, then you need to try to get something on the IP shaft to turn it to it's locking position and get it locked, without ruining the splines on the IP shaft )
At this point I'd use the IP timer or heavily padded grips on the IP drive shaft (timer removed) to center the tang in the RIV port and confirm by fitting the locking tool. But first, I'd loosen the IP and set it so the bolts are in the middle of the adjustment slots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregMN View Post
as I remember, you cannot get enough slack on the chain to slip the gear off the IP shaft. you have to be able to get the slack of the chain and be able to move the gear toward the engine to get it free of the chain and out.
I've never done this but I read about slipping a stiff sheet between the chain and timer - giving up positive indexing which could lead to problems later on - all the way around timer where it's in contact with the chain. I also read about heavily greasing the chain and pushing it away from the timer with the grease holding it away from the timer.

Sixto
MB-less
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-16-2014, 09:16 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: MN
Posts: 1,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixto View Post
How do you do this at 15*ATDC?



How to you get chain slack from the tensioner side to the IP side? The cams are locked so you have to turn the crank CCW. Can you gain enough slack to separate the chain from the IP timer before pistons touch valves? The safe bet is to pull the cams... or read the FSM if it has something to say about it



At this point I'd use the IP timer or heavily padded grips on the IP drive shaft (timer removed) to center the tang in the RIV port and confirm by fitting the locking tool. But first, I'd loosen the IP and set it so the bolts are in the middle of the adjustment slots.



I've never done this but I read about slipping a stiff sheet between the chain and timer - giving up positive indexing which could lead to problems later on - all the way around timer where it's in contact with the chain. I also read about heavily greasing the chain and pushing it away from the timer with the grease holding it away from the timer.

Sixto
MB-less
You have pretty much made my point that it cannot be done. Thank you.

The cams can only be locked at TDC.

You can get slack beyond the cam gear by removing it from the cam after the cam is locked, which you cannot do at 15 degrees after TDC.

I noted the impossible procedure to make my point that it is easier to R&R the IP than to try to R&R the timing gear, that cannot be done anyways.
__________________
Greg
2012 S350 BlueTEC 4Matic
2007 ML 320 CDI
2007 Leisure Travel Serenity
2006 Sprinter 432k
2005 E320 CDI
1998 SLK230 (teal)
1998 SLK230 (silver)
1996 E300D 99k, 30k on WVO
Previous:
1983 240D, on WVO
1982 300D, on WVO
1983 300CD, on WVO
1986 300SDL 237k, 25k on WVO (Deerslayer)
1991 350SDL 249k, 56k on WVO - Retired to a car spa in Phoenix
1983 380 SEC w/603 diesel, 8k on WVO
1996 E300D 351k, 177k on WVO
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-17-2014, 12:29 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Humble, TX
Posts: 50
I plan on doing the job as Sixto suggests without the basket. I will look at the removing the timing gear when I pull the vacuum pump. I think ya'll are right there is not enough slack in the timing chain.The FSM is incorrect on setting TDC for a 606.910. The FSM says to look for the pin punch mark on the 606.910 there is no pin punch mark. If one goes to FSM cam timing procedure you will see that it explains that there is a hole in the cam and the cam tower on the 606.910 to set TDC. The car has been sitting since July due to a family emergency and misc. other problems. I do not remember positively how I set TDC in July. I probably removed the #1 glow plug and felt for the piston and compression since the procedure was wrong and I did not look at the cam timing procedure. I set the timing when I checked it in December using the hole in the cam gear it is very easy to see the hole and set TDC visually. In neither case did I pull the cam cover.
I am really not sure what the index on the injection shaft set at I will check. Why can't you just take the link out of the timing chain and reattach the link?

Last edited by JRImrie; 12-17-2014 at 05:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-17-2014, 02:32 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Humble, TX
Posts: 50
There is a procedure for setting TDC and locking it without locking the cams. I'll give you a laugh on the 95 E300 the way you find TDC is as follows some kid must have come up with it. There is a jig you fit a spring loaded device that sits in the jig that falls into a TDC slot on the vibration damper when the dial indicator placed on the cam lobe hits zero whomever designed it did place the dial indicator on the inlet cam. The TDC procedure is not in the manual but there is a procedure for finding TDC.
It's probably a two hour plus job you have to remove the intake manifold and the cam cover and everything needed to remove it. The cam lobe I am sure it is not even at its apex at TDC so the dial indicator would be past zero. I do not remember if it calls for the dial indicator to be at zero or another reading. There is also another set of timing marks apart from the slot. There is a hole in the cam sprocket that you place a pin in to check the chain stretch or time the cams and there is no punch mark for TDC like is on the older diesels. The procedure is absolutely ridiculous as is the documentation for the 606.910.
The TDC would be locked by the jig with the spring loaded tool. I'll try and find the procedure again it is not in the FSM, if successful I'll post it even though it is ludicrous in my opinion. Perhaps an Mercedes engineer got upset with Mercedes mechanics and got even with all of them everywhere.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-18-2014, 08:01 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 47
I'll chime in here, because I am in the middle of this job, and have lost even more hair off the back of my head.

There ARE two punch marks in the cams of the OM606.910 engine. If you remove the valve cover, and rotate engine by hand, and continue to turn until they line up, (drivers side cam punch mark @ 9, and passenger @ 3 - clockface references FYI) that is TDC. The lobes on the cams will be pointing UP as well when you get there.

It is very easy for the indicator on the flywheel to become FUBAR. This is a good way to cross-check it and see. It does require removing the valve cover though.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page