Crankcase Full Of Fuel. 1991 350SDL - Page 5 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Squiggle Dog · #61 07-21-2015, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude99

I just rescanned this thread. A quick question. Did the crankcase fill with fuel before or after you rebuilt and started using the factory lift pump again? I'm wondering if it might be worth while just to switch back to the electric one that was on the car before. It would be a cheap solution if the lift pump was still the source of the diesel in the crankcase.

I believe the crankcase filled up after I used the factory lift pump again. The electric one was sent back to the previous owner.

It seems to me that I either cracked the injection pump when I replaced the delivery valve washers and O-rings (even though the job seemed to go smoothly--though one of the elements completely came out) and this would explain the smoking because the calibration would be off--or the lift pump is still leaking, but that would not explain the smoking that wasn't there before I did all the work.

courtney · #62 07-21-2015, 05:28 PM

hope you figure out what is wrong

sucks you have spent so much time on it, surely you are close to finding the cause

good luck

dude99 · #63 07-21-2015, 05:35 PM

Quote:

though one of the elements completely came out) and this would explain the smoking because the calibration would be off

Hmmm, I wonder if that one element is stuck full open and flooding that cylinder with fuel\dumping diesel past the rings and into the crank case....

Maxbumpo · #64 07-22-2015, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude99

Hmmm, I wonder if that one element is stuck full open and flooding that cylinder with fuel\dumping diesel past the rings and into the crank case....

I'm far from an injection pump expert, but I do know that if more than the DV holder and its parts come out of the IP, that is generally a BAD THING. In other words, on the Good-Bad gauge, the needle just pegged the Bad side.

$500 or more to calibrate / rebuild the injection pump, but likely it cannot be rebuilt due to the VO use as a fuel.

$50-$100 or more plus your time to install a used IP, but you may not know the health of that used IP until it has been installed. Don't forget a new o-ring between IP and engine block.

funola · #65 07-22-2015, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squiggle Dog

The OM603 engine seems to be non-existent in the wrecking yards. I don't think I have ever seen one in the many years I have been going to them. ..............

Then you'll have to find what you need and have it mailed to you. Ebay link in post #50 by whunter has a lift pump with the p/n 0440007018 listed for 82-93 Mercedes W201 190D for $98/ make offer. P/n 0440007018 may be the same for a 603.

You are not going to get more than scrap value for the car as is. Do not expect to recoup the parts and labor you have sunk into it.

You mentioned fuel shooting out of the inlet manifold while running spraying fuel on the fender. How can that happen? Didn't you clean the inlet manifold and put a new gasket on it? Exactly where is it shooting fuel out from?

Squiggle Dog · #66 07-22-2015, 04:11 PM

The injection pump may well have an element that is sticking open and causing one cylinder to fill up with fuel which shoots out the intake manifold and causes one cylinder to smoke, and also could possibly be going down past the rings.

It's just so confusing. I have no idea why diesel shoots out of where the intake manifold connects to the turbo when I start it, except at least one cylinder could be full of diesel and it gets pushed out past the intake valves. It might be coming out of the exhaust manifold clamp, as well, now that I think of it. It hydrolocked right after I cranked it for the first time after doing the original work.

Either way, it seems that it's a problem with the injection pump. I'll probably have to pull it and have it tested. But I'll inspect the lift pump and will open the side plate of the injection pump and pump the lift pump to see if fuel drips out into the oil part of the housing.

Squiggle Dog · #67 07-22-2015, 04:33 PM

It does look like the diesel shot out of the area where the intake manifold connects to the turbo, as well as the EGR valve and where the exhaust manifold connects to the turbo.

So, the likely explanation is that the fuel is being pushed out through the intake and exhaust valves upon starting from at least one stuck open injection pump valve, which would explain the smoke when running, and why the engine hydrolocked after repeated cranking the first time.

The engine ran fine before I replaced the delivery valve O-rings, except for sluggish throttle response, which was corrected by rebuilding the lift pump. And I did accidentally pull up one of the elements.

Everything seems to be leading to the injection pump. I doubt the piston rings are bad. The injectors are rebuilt now. The lift pump looked visually good when I inspected the internal parts (no scoring that I remember) and it has new O-rings, which immediately corrected the almost non-existent throttle response.

Even if the lift pump was leaking, that would not cause fuel to get into the cylinders to the point of hydrolocking and at the very least, shoot fuel out of the manifolds through the valves. It would also not cause smoking.

jay_bob · #68 07-22-2015, 06:51 PM

The inside story on why it's a real bad thing if the innards of the element come out if you are trying to replace the DV seals.

Index of /docs/Bosch/Bosch_Pre-Tech_Diesel_Service_Training

Read chapters 0, 1, 2, 3 then look at chapter 4.3 for the MW pump.

The alignment of the element is crucial and cannot be reset without the pump going on a calibration bench.

I agree the pump is shot. Most shops won't rebuild or accept for a core a pump that has seen WVO.

courtney · #69 07-23-2015, 03:07 AM

will you use southwest diesel for inspecting/rebuilding the ip? just curious

wondering who else in phx does that?

and if you do use them please post how that goes etc

i have used that shop on my ford powerstrokes and they seem to know what they are doing
but i did not get injector work or anything like that

Squiggle Dog · #70 07-23-2015, 09:22 AM

Jay_bob, thanks for the links. Very informative.

Courtney, I plan to use Southwest Diesel for testing and calibration if needed. I had the injectors in my 300SD rebuilt there. I had to remove, take them back, then reinstall them several times because they kept leaking between the two halves of the bodies because they weren't lapped properly. But they finally work now.

The shop kept trying to tell me it wasn't the injectors leaking, but rather my hard lines, which wasn't the case. But, I recently had the injectors in this 350SDL rebuilt, and I haven't yet noticed any leaks--but then again, it has barely run yet.

Squiggle Dog · #71 08-16-2015, 10:39 AM

I took the injection pump in to Southwest Diesel, and they confirmed that the plungers were very worn and scored--so that is where the fuel is leaking into the oil compartment. They quoted me $2,450 to rebuild it.

I am looking for a used replacement pump. I may have a deal lined up with one forum member.

dude99 · #72 08-16-2015, 01:48 PM

Well at least now you know. Their price is more than have a super pump built, lol. A used pump is dwffinitely a better way to go.

courtney · #73 08-18-2015, 04:04 AM

wow, that is a really high price on the pump

hope you can find a good used one

funola · #74 08-18-2015, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squiggle Dog

It does look like the diesel shot out of the area where the intake manifold connects to the turbo, as well as the EGR valve and where the exhaust manifold connects to the turbo.

So, the likely explanation is that the fuel is being pushed out through the intake and exhaust valves upon starting from at least one stuck open injection pump valve, which would explain the smoke when running, and why the engine hydrolocked after repeated cranking the first time.

The engine ran fine before I replaced the delivery valve O-rings, except for sluggish throttle response, which was corrected by rebuilding the lift pump. And I did accidentally pull up one of the elements.

Everything seems to be leading to the injection pump. I doubt the piston rings are bad. The injectors are rebuilt now. The lift pump looked visually good when I inspected the internal parts (no scoring that I remember) and it has new O-rings, which immediately corrected the almost non-existent throttle response.

Even if the lift pump was leaking, that would not cause fuel to get into the cylinders to the point of hydrolocking and at the very least, shoot fuel out of the manifolds through the valves. It would also not cause smoking.

I don't think one or more "stuck open injection pump valve" whatever that is you were refering to , can fill the inlet and exh manifolds and cylinders with fuel. You did say the valve cover was filled almost to the brim with fuel? If so, the cylinders with open valves would have been completely filled. The exh and inlet manifolds would also have been filled.

Squiggle Dog · #75 08-18-2015, 11:17 PM

What happened is that the injection pump was leaking fuel from the fuel chamber into the oil chamber at a high rate because of worn and scored plungers. The waste vegetable oil was likely coagulated and working as a seal, and once I did the diesel purge, it cleared it away and allowed free passage.

So, it was dumping more fuel into the crankcase than was actually going into the injectors. It put over 2 gallons of fuel into the crankcase in short time. This caused excessive crankcase pressure which blew out the manifolds.