I conclude that because

0. The battery was well-charged.

1. the block heater was on all night- and it does work

2. The oil was like molasses and had to be heated to move faster in -5 F weather.

Once I heated the oil, everything moved and started very quickly.

My whole point can be summarized in ONE sentence:

No one on this forum has yet told me FOR SURE -- WITH DATA -- at what temperature the dipstick heater operates.

In Canada, I notice dipstick heaters are not advised because they start fires. This tells me that the temperature they heat the oil OVERNIGHT may be higher than 300-400 F.

So I'll find out doing an experi9ment in which they heat 5 quarts of cold oil in a detached oil pan.

I can use a non-contact thermometer to tell me how much the temp is raised every minute.

THEN I will have REAL DATA, not OPINIONS.

I'm tires of asking for the one and just getting the other.

__________________
Strelnik
Invest in America: Buy a Congressman!

1950 170SD
1951 Citroen 11BN
1953 Citroen 11BNF limo
1953 220a project
1959 180D
1960 190D
1960 Borgward Isabella TS 2dr
1983 240D daily driver
1983 380SL
1990 350SDL daily driver alt
3 x Citroen DS21M, down from 5
3 x Citroen 2CV, down from 6

here's the problem...

dipstick tube heaters are for sitting at the bottom of a oil sump...

MB dipsticks go all the way to the bottom of the sump, so the heater is always in the tube...

so you are heating the tiny column of oil in the tube, and letting convection transfer the heat of the high temp tube to the sump of oil... I can see the tube oil flashing and causing a fire.
IF the dipstick heater does not have a temp limiter above a certain temp... I do not know the construction of the heaters.

__________________
John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!

Quick search found this http://www.amazon.com/Kats-15200-Dipstick-Style-Heater/dp/B000BO74DG#productDetails a 90 watt unit. Only the tip 2 to 3 inches or so of the heater gets hot, that's a lot of heat in a small area. It's very close to a soldering iron in construction, which operates in the 600 to 900 F range. Not to be used unless immersed in oil means it is not temperature controlled and could burn out if left on not immersed for too long. Most soldering irons is in the 40 to 60 w range. 90 watt would likely be close to glowing red in such small surface area of the dipstick heater. Use a thermocouple in contact with the heater to measure its surface temperature.

__________________
85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked

It doesn`t seem the Dip Stick heater has a thermostat to control the heat.

A electric water heater has 2 heating elements that must be immersed in the water or they will burn out.
Also the WH has a thermostat that controls the element when to turn on and off.

If the Dip Stick had a temp control it would be a good idea.
Iam not going to be negative on the subject since I don`t know.

Strilnic let`s see what data you come up with, and then every one can take it from there.

Iam all for having warm oil on these cold start up`s. Block heaters are good,
but only heat the upper part of the block and not the oil which is critical to get to the bearings as soon as possible.

Charlie

__________________
there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works

This is my point Kats didn't discuss power output and you are estimating it.

Once I do an experiemnt with a non-contact thermometer in a simulated oil set-up with real oil pan and oil, then we'll know.

Roight now NOBODY knows for sure and everyone is GUESSING.

Thanks for the educated guesses but I WANT DATA before I sacrifice my car.

I like thois one too much.

__________________
Strelnik
Invest in America: Buy a Congressman!

1950 170SD
1951 Citroen 11BN
1953 Citroen 11BNF limo
1953 220a project
1959 180D
1960 190D
1960 Borgward Isabella TS 2dr
1983 240D daily driver
1983 380SL
1990 350SDL daily driver alt
3 x Citroen DS21M, down from 5
3 x Citroen 2CV, down from 6

The link I provided clearly says the power is 90 watts. You can measure the resistance of yours and calculate power with ohms law. Have fun and do your experiment, which won't tell you much. It would be more meaningful to measure the oil temp in the sump first, stick the dipstick heater in for 2 hours and measure the oil temp again and see what the temp rise is. You can easily use a thermocouple via the dipstick tube for the measurement. Wait a few minutes for the oil temp in the dipstick tube to equalize before taking the second measurement.

__________________
85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked

700 degrees with 90 watts? What is this technology? From outer space?

I would put it on a cycle timer. Easiest would be a 15 min lamp timer, the one with pegs built in so you can have it do 15 min on/15 min off. Give it time to transfer the heat.

This is a practice from hydroponics. Pumps run constant and end up hearing your water reservoir. Just turning it off for one min every 5 stops this. Otherwise the heat builds and builds and builds.

The test seems inaccurate as in a complete motor the heat will transfer to the block. I would get a pump that pulls oil out the dipstick (boat tool) and read temps that way. Test on the unit itself. Unless you have another complete motor on the stand.

Yep, not far fetched at all. See color temp chart below. A 100 watt incandescent light bulb's filament is around 3,000 F, most of that 100 W is dissipated as heat through a filament that is 2" long with very little surface area compared to a dipstick heater. On the bulb's glass surface, it's probably around 400 to 500 F. So 700 F on the surface of the dipstick heater is a reasonable assumption.

https://www.google.com/search?q=color+temperature+chart&rlz=1CATAAB_enUS627US627&espv=2&biw=1097&bih=554&tbm=isch&imgil=_6PEpEw_rcDb-M%253A%253B_-fI48wMUeGr6M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.mediacollege.com%25252Flighting%25252Fcolour%25252Fcol our-temperature.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=_6PEpEw_rcDb-M%253A%252C_-fI48wMUeGr6M%252C_&usg=__mnDEaQnr8QClwLtQ2b0d6_RZhqs%3D&ved=0CCkQyjc&ei=6l3mVKKWCKPHsQSUo4FI#imgdii=_&imgrc=_6PEpEw_rcDb-M%253A%3B_-fI48wMUeGr6M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.mediacollege.com%252Flighting%252Fcolour%252Fimages%252Fcolour-temperature.gif%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.mediacollege.com%252Flighting%252Fcolour%252Fcolour-temperature.html%3B400%3B415

__________________
85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked

There may be some misunderstanding here. It will not warm the entire sump to 700 F. It will warm the oil that is in immediate contact with the dipstick heater to 700 F. As Vstech pointed out, the dipstick tube in a Mercedes goes all the way to the bottom of the sump, the oil inside the tube will be heated to what ever temp the dipstick heater is at since there is no churn in there.

__________________
85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked

Ummm. Color temp has to do with the shade of the light in degrees kelvin. Completely different concept.

Second, We've all touched a hot light bulb, and still have our fingers. I've never checked the temp to be honest, but lots of things melt at those stated temps.

And thirdly, put a light bulb in a liquid and see how hot it gets, not air. Wait actually that's a bad idea. Lol.

But in all seriousness, this is a problem all the time in hydroponics and aquariums. And cycling it on and off is the answer.

I use two 200 watt magnetic heaters on a Detroit 4-71 that powers a road grader I use for snow plowing. (It sits outside year round.) I tried one on the block & one on the pan - OK, but with both on the pan it started easier/spun up faster. In semi's that sit outside year round, and work in extreme cold I've tried everything. The best performer has been a 1500 watt unit w/pump (larger if I can get 'em) that is installed the heater hose loop. This seems to circulate hot water in the block & heater core, but not much in the radiator due to the t-stat . I use the same set up w/two 5000 watt units in a 2MW emergency genset powered by a V16 Mits. The genset sits outside in a non-insulated cabinet. This morning OAT was -10F and the Mits block was +45F. Not perfect but OK. On one customer's W126 300SD I use a MB block heater, a battery blanket & a battery tender all wired through a common source. It's simple to use & effective. Draws less than 10 amps. Car has 450k+ on the clock, and handles the weather pretty well. All this w/o anything exotic, and runing 15W40 dino juice. Another competing website suggests using a glue on pad affixed to the oil pan(pad from McMaster-Carr, about 200w). I dunno, I've used those on aircraft engines. They work, kind of, but I'm not impressed. Oil leaks loosen/wash off the glue. One thing for sure, a hot block at start up lasts longer - the bore is round & true (no uneven wear, good compression) and the oil circulates easily.

The response here for a 'dip-stick' heating...is humorous.....As a master of marine mechanics, and owner of 4 MB's including 617 and 603, and a Perkins diesel 4108 in my sailboat, my experience ...and my opinion...dip stick heaters...are for 'dip sticks'.....If you got start from a cold...very cold engine...from the warming from a 30 minute DIP stick....you won the trillion dollar lottery!

It seems like a miracle product. But would they be beneficial in an emergency? I live on the coast of California, but feel like it might be worth $30 to throw it in the trunk for the day (or night I guess) in case of emergency.

What's up with these fires? People not following directions? It's pretty hard to lite oil on fire.

'Adventures with dipstick heater' It sounds NC17 ;-)

So, if it's a concern at all, just validate it for safety.

Dip tube heater
Coffee can
1 qt used oil
Splash of diesel
Splash of gas.
String, as required.

Put all fluids in the coffee can, stir with heater.
Suspend heater with string and hot end in can in a safe place (for a fire).
Plug the heater in and observe for signs of danger (boiling, glowing or flames).

It may not be designed for unloaded use. If used unloaded it may overtemp and fail like a teacup heater, then you need a new one.

I tried to use a teacup heater to heat WVO. It was, I think too viscous, and would not load the teacup heater sufficiently, and it burned out. Or it didn't boil on contact, like water would. Phase change can have a huge heat transfer coefficient.

The resistance of heat element will change as it heats. The relationship P=V^2/R will probably not accurately predict the power the heat element will generate if R is measured when the heater is not glowing.

It will be completely useless with a PTC element heater, the resistance is low until they reach rated temp, I think.

__________________
CC: NSA

All things are burning, know this and be released.

82 Benz 240 D, Kuan Yin
12 Ford Escape 4wd

You're four times

It's hard to

more likely to

concentrate on

have an accident

two things

when you're on

at the same time.

a cell phone.

www.kiva.org It's not like there's anything wrong with feeling good, is there?

i'm not so sure this is true. oil and steel conduct heat just fine, and a heating element surrounded by a giant heat sink will give up that energy nearly as fast as it comes in. i think the heating element surface will get way hotter in free air than inside the oil sump. compare a flame on your stovetop, which will make red-hot a little piece of wire, but no part of a cast-iron pan.

nonetheless, i'm not a physicist or a chemical engineer!

__________________
'77 240D, 504H, OM617.952, etc.