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#1
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SBC: How difficult to stop car once it goes out?
I've already made the mental adjustment that replacing the SBC pump on my CDI is in my future...have no idea when....and that I'll shell out close to $1500 when that happens (unless it happens before July 31, in which case MB picks up the tab). I'm fine with that...really.
My concern is with the difficulty stopping the car once it goes out....especially if someone other than me is driving the car at the time. From what I've read, it can be very difficult to depress the pedal enough to get any really braking power. I should probably brief my wife and son on this, who, on rare occasions, may be driving the car. But I hate to make them paranoid. FWIW....from MB's training materials regarding the backup hydraulic system: "This system meets the legally mandatory minimum deceleration of 0.3 g with a foot pressure of 500 N.(112lb/ft)." Any thoughts as to how dangerous a situation it could actually be?
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14 E250 Bluetec "Sinclair", Palladium Silver on Black, 153k miles 06 E320 CDI "Rutherford", Black on Tan, 171k mi, Stage 1 tune, tuned TCU 91 300D "Otis", Smoke Silver, 142k mi, wastegate conversion 19 Honda CR-V EX 61k mi Fourteen other MB's owned and sold 1961 Very Tolerant Wife Last edited by shertex; 11-19-2015 at 08:17 AM. |
#2
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It depends on how you drive.
If proper following distance, and anticipated weak stopping are paramount on your mind, stopping would be startling but doable... Like normal, then panic stopping... If you drive at the very limit of conservation, waiting till the last second to apply stopping force, then you'll likely have an accident.
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread "as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do! My drivers: 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!! 1987 300TD 1987 300TD 1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere! |
#3
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You have to mash on the brake pedal substantially harder. Disconnect SBC module if you want to give it a try.
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Jim |
#4
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Those specs on the backup system are dismal. 0.3 g decel rate would feel very scary to most of us. A honda civic can stop from 60 mph to 0 mph in 130 feet or so. Your mercedes would take around 400 ft to slow from 60 mph to 0 mph. Or put it differently, very modest cars can slow at a rate of around 1 g (vs. the .3 g when your sbc goes out).
Regarding pedal force, 500 N is 112 lb of force (no ft needed in the units). I suspect for most of us, that is a pretty high pedal force. Our legs are very strong, but putting out that sort of force with 1 leg would require substantial effort, I believe. I don't mean to be reactionary. I am just honestly surprised at how low the legal mandatory decel rate is.
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1968 220D, w115, /8, OM615, Automatic transmission. My 1987 300TD wagon was sold and my 2003 W210 E320 wagon was totaled (sheds tear). |
#5
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I guess the real doomsday scenario is having the SBC go out at the very time you need to stop suddenly. Any other scenario you'd be able to allow for gradual braking and not get in a wreck. We'll see what happens when the time comes. In the meantime, I'll enjoy the best braking I've ever experienced.
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14 E250 Bluetec "Sinclair", Palladium Silver on Black, 153k miles 06 E320 CDI "Rutherford", Black on Tan, 171k mi, Stage 1 tune, tuned TCU 91 300D "Otis", Smoke Silver, 142k mi, wastegate conversion 19 Honda CR-V EX 61k mi Fourteen other MB's owned and sold 1961 Very Tolerant Wife |
#6
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Both feet on the pedal, push like you're holding a boulder back from crushing you.
Keep in mind you take half a second to react. If I was driving a car that had imminent SBC failure, I'd be giving my self 5 seconds between cars so I could react and either slow or swerve.
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'84 190D 2.2 5MT (Red/Palomino) Current car. Love it! '85 190D 2.2 Auto *Cali* (Blue/Blue) *sold* http://badges.fuelly.com/images/sig-us/302601.png http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/a...0/sideview.png |
#7
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Sorry chaps - I had to google SBC and I've come up with some likely suspects but none so far have been automotive based!
My favourites so far are Suicide By Cop Small Bowel Cancer Swiss Bank Corporation and Silly ***** ****...
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver 1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone 1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy! 1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits! |
#8
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Adding "Mercedes" to the search query should help....
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14 E250 Bluetec "Sinclair", Palladium Silver on Black, 153k miles 06 E320 CDI "Rutherford", Black on Tan, 171k mi, Stage 1 tune, tuned TCU 91 300D "Otis", Smoke Silver, 142k mi, wastegate conversion 19 Honda CR-V EX 61k mi Fourteen other MB's owned and sold 1961 Very Tolerant Wife |
#9
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I do not know what SBC stands for either.... but assume from the results of not having it that it is the same as not having vacuum going to your master cylinder..
Manny's description is right on... and that was just to stop... not a fast stop... just to keep from rolling through a couple of stop signs... I am not sure why you think it might go out relatively soon....but I would not be driving it myself or let anyone else drive it until that is fixed.... This ' maintaining proper distance'.... you can not do that with idiots operating the other vehicles on the road...
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1980 240d , chain elongation, cam marks reference: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/10414-help-i-need-check-stretch.html http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/305365-9-degrees-chain-stretch.html evap fin cleaning: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/156207-photo-step-step-post-showing-w123-evaporator-removal-1983-240d-1982-300td.html?highlight=evaporator A/C thread http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/297462-c-recommendations-mb-vehicles.html |
#10
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Sensotronic Brake Control
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14 E250 Bluetec "Sinclair", Palladium Silver on Black, 153k miles 06 E320 CDI "Rutherford", Black on Tan, 171k mi, Stage 1 tune, tuned TCU 91 300D "Otis", Smoke Silver, 142k mi, wastegate conversion 19 Honda CR-V EX 61k mi Fourteen other MB's owned and sold 1961 Very Tolerant Wife |
#11
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Quote:
SBC is basically brake by wire.
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14 E250 Bluetec "Sinclair", Palladium Silver on Black, 153k miles 06 E320 CDI "Rutherford", Black on Tan, 171k mi, Stage 1 tune, tuned TCU 91 300D "Otis", Smoke Silver, 142k mi, wastegate conversion 19 Honda CR-V EX 61k mi Fourteen other MB's owned and sold 1961 Very Tolerant Wife |
#12
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Why did you post ?
You claim to have made the mental adjustment to spend the $1500 .... the reports are that if it does go out it is dangerous... but then you say you do not see it as a good investment as preventative maintenance.... You are on both sides of the fence... but of all the functions your car needs to be trustworthy on..... I put braking pretty much at the top of the list....
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1980 240d , chain elongation, cam marks reference: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?threadid=10414 http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/305365-9-degrees-chain-stretch.html evap fin cleaning: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/156207-photo-step-step-post-showing-w123-evaporator-removal-1983-240d-1982-300td.html?highlight=evaporator A/C thread http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/297462-c-recommendations-mb-vehicles.html |
#13
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Quote:
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14 E250 Bluetec "Sinclair", Palladium Silver on Black, 153k miles 06 E320 CDI "Rutherford", Black on Tan, 171k mi, Stage 1 tune, tuned TCU 91 300D "Otis", Smoke Silver, 142k mi, wastegate conversion 19 Honda CR-V EX 61k mi Fourteen other MB's owned and sold 1961 Very Tolerant Wife |
#14
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I'd be very surprised if any CDI owners have preemptively replaced the pump....but perhaps some have.
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14 E250 Bluetec "Sinclair", Palladium Silver on Black, 153k miles 06 E320 CDI "Rutherford", Black on Tan, 171k mi, Stage 1 tune, tuned TCU 91 300D "Otis", Smoke Silver, 142k mi, wastegate conversion 19 Honda CR-V EX 61k mi Fourteen other MB's owned and sold 1961 Very Tolerant Wife |
#15
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Well at least you will get the error message confirming you have no assisted brakes. The pump is only one component of the system, what about the wiring harnesses and SAM which can also have problems.
So once the error is annunciated it should be an immediate tow to the dealer! Lawyers may have a lot of fun discussing why someone knew his braking power was down significantly yet still chose to drive.
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92 e300d2.5t 01 e320 05 cdi 85 chev c10 |
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