I have a specific question about swapping a late 70's 240d 4 speed into a 85 300td. I know the iron 4 speeds from the 240d don't use dowels to line up to the intermediate plate and I want to keep the 85's intermediate as it has the tech's pick up. Does anyone know if a iron box transmission will locate on the 85 plate?

Thanks,

Tim

I would have said that the old box will bolt up to the 85 plate. Are you sure about the dowels? I'd have said they used them on all years.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

From reading other people's 4 speed swap threads it sounds like the iron box doesn't use dowels and Getrag's do. Early w123 intermediate plates don't allow for dowels but around ~79 the plates started to have dowel holes even though the transmissions installed didn't require them until around 80 or so.

Well, I just searched and found a very authoritative post saying what you outlined above. I cannot verify or discredit it on my experience, so I recommend proceeding with caution.

Having to take off the adapter plate is not the end of the world, but the FW bolts are fairly expensive.

That said it may bolt up fine without the dowels. I do like it when the dowels are used though. Seems a good way to get positive centering.

I'd touch base with Charmalu.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Yes, the centering ring for the earlier (iron box) clutch housing is incorporated in the later intermediate plate.

Correct; the concentric centering ring is actually a more consistent means than dowels, but a more expensive manufacturing method.

Great news, thanks Frank!

I was also worried about the starter in my 85 being unique to that year and not working with an early intermediate plate if I had to go that route.

Tim

The only difference I see between the all one piece trans 4-spd, like used in the 82/83 240D and the earlier Iron Box transmission is the lack of the Dowel or Locater pins on the Iron Box Bell Housing.
The Dowel Pins are just to line up the Trans with the Bolt Holes to make it a bit easier to start the Bolts. After you get those large Bolts in and tightened down.
She ain`t gona move anywhere.

Both Bell Housings, (the part that mates to the Adaptor Plate) have seven holes plus the two for the Starter Bump.

Either type of Transmission will bolt up to a OM616 or a OM617 engine.

My 80 240D uses the Iron Box Transmission.
81 240D may be the last year of that type transmission.

The Iron Box Trans. has a remove able Bell housing. IE the transmission bolts to it.
The Shift Rods are different between the two type Transmissions. Lengths, bends etc...
Be sure to grab the rods with the transmission.

The Shift Lever mechanism is the same.
When you remove the Auto shifter, only 4 bolts hold it to the body.
The Manual one bolts to the same holes.

The Starter for the Kali 85 300D and 300SD is only unique to those cars, is because of the Trap Oxidizer.
Which sits right above the Starter, and the Solenoid was moved to the bottom of the starter for clearance.

The kali Starter will work on the federal models, but not the other way around.

I will throw this in, even with a manual trans, replacing the Auto trans on your 85, the Tach will work just fine.

The only problem you will have is with the pilot bearing. As the 85 has a 34mm Crank Hole, and all
other years of the OM616 and OM617 engines use a 35MM hole.
There is no bearing that is 34MM with the proper with and proper size center hole.
You will have to modify it.

__________________
there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works

Charmalu has posted a really nice summary for you. The only real PITA is the pilot bearing, as noted. If you start with a SKF 6202-2RSJ (I have the box sitting on my desk) or equivalent (I think I paid $4 at my local bearing store) you can clamp the center in a drill press and work the outside with a die grinder, Dremel tool, of the like. With it spinning on the drill press it'll stay pretty concentric. Measure A LOT!! until you're just on the big side of 34mm (I forget the English equivalent) as it does need to press in snugly. They're so cheap that if you mess one up it's not a big deal to start over.

Don't be surprised if you have to smack the center of the output shaft to get the trans to slide in as this type of input shaft bearing also has a slight interference fit on the ID to the input shaft so it doesn't usually slip right in like a bushing style will. Use alignment dowels in the back of the block so you CAN'T misalign the trans - just cut the heads off some hardware bolts and taper the cut end on a bench grinder. I add a slot for a screw driver (hack saw or cut-off wheel) so I can back them out if they get hard to turn with your fingers. If it's any consolation, the 347 SBFord I'm putting in the Volvo was the same way, also with a ball bearing pilot.

Have Fun!!

Dan

Thanks Charmalu and Dan.

One thing I just remembered.
The cross mount to use is one from a 240D automatic trans or one from a 280E with the auto trans.

Be sure to mark the auto FW to the Crank before removing it.
You will have to match balance the new manual FW to the auto FW.

If you do not mark the FW to the crank, or there is no marking or witness marks already there.
When you replace it, you will have 12 different positions to bolt it back up.

It is recommended to replace the 12 FW bolts when they are removed.
They are a torque to yield bolt.

__________________
there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works

I recently did a swap of an 85 617 into my manual 240D and posted most of it here: OM617 Engine Swap in 240D

Have a read through it may answer some of the questions and help you resolve some problems you might run into.

__________________
--------------------------------------------
Old Blue - '83 240D 6 speed manual trans, OM648
Green Machine - 2001 Europa G500
'87 300SDL Bought on Peachparts
'02 E320 4matic wagon

Patchouli Wagon - 2004 E500 - SOLD
333k mile 97 BMW 750il V12. - SOLD
The Californian - 85 300TD - SOLD
Daily Super Sedan - 03 Audi S8 - SOLD
Family Truckster - 2012 VW Touareg TDI - SOLD

I didn't mark mine 'cause I didn't know no better (in my best redneck dialect). Either mine was internally balanced or I got dumb lucky but I've had my engine up to 5200 RPM and it was acceptably smooth. I'll take lucky over skilled every day of the week! Still, if I ever have to pull the flywheel you can be sure I'll mark it.

As I've noted on here before, if you get the whole deal together and it shakes you can have a balancing service come on-site and balance it up for you so all is not lost. They'll balance everything and you can then mark the newly-balanced assembly for future reference.

Dan

Are you saying there is a way to balance the flywheel to the crank with the motor assembled?

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Dan, I have read it both ways. have them matched balanced, and some are
neutral balanced.

I would rather error on the side of caution, and not have a problem and have to pull it apart.

Ya know, it is at 5300 RPM they start to vibrate.

__________________
there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works

mine were balanced when the workshop done the swap.

Just curious, how did you bleed your clutch system ?

my clutch sometimes doesn't return upwards after being pressed down, so yeah i suspect air in the line somewhere and was wondering how another person who's done the swap went about doing theirs ?