Need help with a rust repair - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

leathermang · #16 12-01-2016, 05:05 PM

If you want to braze... you need oxy Acetylene ... and the tiniest tip made ... this would be multi tacks with lots of wet towels very close to it..... it needs to be hot, get in fast and small.... and get out... properly fluxing your brass rod before hitting the area....
check your local high school and see if they have a welding class... see if the instructor would want to use your car as an example of fixing a small hole keeping the heat to the sheetmetal to the minimum...

FE240D · #17 12-01-2016, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillGrissom

I agree w/ the epoxy patch. Someday when ready to repaint the car, deal with a more proper fix. Epoxy isn't that bad, there are seams in factory cars that were sealed similar, w/ just spot welds attaching the panels. Some whole bodies are epoxy/fiberglass.

If the glass shop won't move forward, offer to take your car elsewhere and not pay them a dime. A competent shop would have offered to fix it for you. I am sure they run into such rust-thrus all the time. Seems they enjoy slapping customers down. Replacing a windshield can be done at home. See youtube.

Yep, I'd be thin on patience with the shop at this stage. It's a liability thing for them, but if they didn't describe limitations like this before starting work verbally or in writing then they can't mandate a specific repair at this stage. Pitch a fit, get loud and get r done.

kuene · #18 12-01-2016, 06:27 PM

I think what demothen is getting at is that the glass shop will only install the glass if the fix is made with a welded metal patch - probably due to their guarantee situation. I think a por/fiberglass tape patch would be fine too.

Demothen · #19 12-01-2016, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuene

I think what demothen is getting at is that the glass shop will only install the glass if the fix is made with a welded metal patch - probably due to their guarantee situation. I think a por/fiberglass tape patch would be fine too.

Ding ding ding. Correct

funola · #20 12-01-2016, 07:17 PM

Ding Dong do it yourself.

Dan Stokes · #21 12-02-2016, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demothen

Okay - so I'm thinking about this more, and since several people have suggested brazing, which requires less heat and won't spatter, I'm thinking that might be the better option.

Unfortunately, I'm completely out of garage space - which means buying a full size brazing rig is out of the question. (My stepfather has one, but he's 6 hours away, so that's a no-go as well).

Would something like https://www.lowes.com/pd/BernzOmatic-Cutting-Welding-and-Brazing-Torch-Kit/50126405 work for what I need? I suspect I might need to buy an extra set of cylinders for it, so I could have plenty of time to practice. It looks like they recommend nickle-silver brazing rods for use with steel.

I have no experience with this system but as long as it makes enough heat in a small area it'll do the job for you. I have an adaptor for my oxy/acetylene set to allow running the acetylene with ambient air instead of oxygen and while it works well for soldering (which is what it's made for) the heated area is too diffused to work for brazing. Bernz-O-Matic is an established company so I'd be pretty confident that if they say it'll work, it'll work. I'd just use standard ol' pre-fluxed brass rod which works fine. You can get it at any welding supply place and it's pretty cheap.

Dan

Demothen · #22 12-02-2016, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Stokes

I have no experience with this system but as long as it makes enough heat in a small area it'll do the job for you. I have an adaptor for my oxy/acetylene set to allow running the acetylene with ambient air instead of oxygen and while it works well for soldering (which is what it's made for) the heated area is too diffused to work for brazing. Bernz-O-Matic is an established company so I'd be pretty confident that if they say it'll work, it'll work. I'd just use standard ol' pre-fluxed brass rod which works fine. You can get it at any welding supply place and it's pretty cheap.

Dan

Thanks. I'm going to pick up a few square feet of 18ga mild steel this weekend (I hope this is close to the stock) and practice with my wirefeed. If I feel confident in that, great. If not, I'll try the brazing torch, and last case I'll try a epoxy and glass repair.

As far as doing it myself, I'm not really seeing any chance of buying the glass, getting it shipped here, sourcing new weatherstrip, and installing it myself costing less than or equal to the cost to have Safelite do it. Not to mention if I break the glass, it's my problem, not theirs. (Yes, I know - Safelite doesn't use OE weatherstrip, it won't be perfect, but I'm out of money and the car lives in a garage or under a cover, very rarely sees rain)

funola · #23 12-02-2016, 12:20 PM

If you are not an experienced in welding/ brazing, the learning curve is much steeper than setting the windshield in a W123, where the procedure is well documented and has been DIY'ed by many members successfully (me included).

If the shop won't do it for you with the rust hole patched with epoxy, find another shop that will. I wouldn't trust Safelite, they hire guys out of school with low experience and pay them low wages. They are mostly trained on modern glass that are glued in, not the old style that are roped in like the W123. I had Safelite do the windshield on my 83 300D about 7 years ago and they totally F'd it up. It leaked afterwards and they just kept pumping urethane under the seal hoping the leak would stop... it never did. Urethane should never have been used if the job was done properly. At the time I didn't know any better what the correct procedure was. Correct way was to rope in the Seal/windshield/metal mouldings as one assembly after a bead of non drying putty was layed down on the pinchweld frame. This installer did not use any putty, roped the seal/ glass in without the mouldings and spent a few hours trying to get the metal mouldings in afterwards and bent them all out of shape. The louldings never seated right after that and it leaked bad. But the car was full of rust anyway so it didn't bother me too much.

When I needed to do the rear glass on my 85 (tree branch fell on it during Sandy, identical procedure as the windshield), I did it myself (even though I have full glass) because I did not want to take a chance with a shop possibly screwing it up. It was easy and came out perfect.

Demothen · #24 12-02-2016, 01:02 PM

Funola,
Do you know of any chains that sell glass directly to the consumer that might be located in a large city such as KC? To be fair I have installed glass 3 times, all on my 74 Beetle with "euro" style seals (no chrome). I did both quarter windows amd the rear windshield.

DeliveryValve · #25 12-02-2016, 01:27 PM

When I installed my windshield, I had my dash out, the pillar covers out and the upper valance out. Because I am not experienced in installing glass, I can not imagine installing it without the removal of those pieces.

Demothen, too bad your not close by. I have one here you can have for free. It's a little road debris blasted though.

But I would call around any glass shop to see if they would just sell the glass to you.

.

mytimeyet · #26 12-02-2016, 01:40 PM

Here is a really LONG thread of a guy that does some amazing metal work. Might get a few tips in there to help with your efforts.
MP&C Shop Projects - The Garage Journal Board
Cheers

kuene · #27 12-02-2016, 02:18 PM

I wouldn't discount Safelite in broad strokes. I had a crack fixed there, and was able to talk to a couple guys directly. Different locations have different employees with different experiences. I asked about replacing my rear window, and after talking/quizzing I felt confident that this particular location would be able to do a good job. These guys were well aware that many safelite dudes would NOT know how to do it right.

Also, if you did the repair with glass and POR right, repainted it, etc - and took at to a new safelite.... would they even know if or how it was repaired?

Demothen · #28 12-02-2016, 04:20 PM

I suspect if I did the repair with epoxy/glass, then took it to them and just told them it had been welded, they'd do it.

Here's an interesting kit I found - similar to fiberglass (in fact that backer material is probably fiberglass. One thing I'd want to do is use por15 before and after the repair just to be sure

No Weld Hole Repair Kit

I've been researching both flux core welding and brazing for body repairs like this, and both seem to have potential for causing paint failures if any flux is trapped in the weld and works it's way back up at a later time.

I have only found one other shop locally that's both returned my call and has glass for the car, and they told me that they would epoxy the hole for a reasonable price.. Then they told me that the windshield on my car was glued in according to their system...so yeah, they're not going to get the car.

funola · #29 12-02-2016, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demothen

Funola,
Do you know of any chains that sell glass directly to the consumer that might be located in a large city such as KC? ..........

No I don't. If you come up with a p/n and do a search, I'm sure you'll get some leads. W123 windshield, unlike the rear glass (the one with the defrost) is widely available after market. What happened to your original windshield? How was the windshield and aluminum mouldings removed?

Demothen · #30 12-02-2016, 04:56 PM

Original windshield was etched and sandblasted so badly that I couldn't drive it at night or into the sun, plus had several stonechips. Safelite removed the old glass in one piece, though it cracked. The aluminum mouldings are still in good shape, but i have no idea how they got them out. They don't seem warped.