300sd Injector Nailing - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

volker407 · #31 03-03-2017, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxbumpo

Ok, looking in the FSM for the OM617a, procedure 07.1-210, no o-ring but there is a copper washer. When that copper washer leaks, it can cause a rough idle. Copper washers are supposed to be replaced with new every time the delivery valve is opened up. They are cheap, but the injection pump and lines need to be clean clean clean before all the injection lines are loosened up and removed and the delivery valves removed in order to ensure that no dirt / grit / lint or other contaminant gets into an injector and clogs or damages a nozzle.

The washer is actually made out of bronze and not copper.

The pump peak working pressure is 450bar and copper gets micro cracks at 300bar or more.
Thats why bronze washers should be used.

Tightening order:
30Nm - loosen - 30Nm - loosen - 35Nm - done

Gruß
Volker

Maxbumpo · #32 03-03-2017, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by volker407

Tightening order:
30Nm - loosen - 30Nm - loosen - 35Nm - done

That's not correct for this pump, FSM says "torque to 40-50 Nm in one step." The FSM procedure includes the bold print.

The procedure you posted is close but not quite right for the injection pumps on the OM60x engines.

Torque to 30 Nm, release. Repeat. Torque to 30Nm, and then another 5Nm to reach 35Nm. That is written as "Torque to 30+5Nm". Procedure is found in the Technical Data Books, not in the FSM.

Maxbumpo · #33 03-03-2017, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by volker407

The washer is actually made out of bronze and not copper.

The pump peak working pressure is 450bar and copper gets micro cracks at 300bar or more.
Thats why bronze washers should be used.

Hmmm, the FSMs I have (in English) call them copper in several places, but that may be a poor translation from the original German.

Diseasel300 · #34 03-03-2017, 02:42 PM

The sealing washers are made of copper. The point is that they're supposed to deform slightly to seal the gap in the delivery valve holder. Bronze doesn't appreciably deform and is not suitable for a "crush" type of seal.

The peak pressure in the pump may be capable of reaching 450bar, but the actual working pressure won't be appreciably higher than the pop pressure of the injector down around 135bar for turbo engines or 115bar for N/A engines.

usmma2013 · #35 03-03-2017, 02:44 PM

Thanks for the help guys! An update. I've moved the IP back a little closer to the original mark; it's now maybe 1.5 mm (advanced) from the original mark, still sounds great. Tomorrow morning is supposed to be 21 degrees so that first start should be a better indication of if this took care of it.

Once I get these DV washer situated and my drip tube arrives, I'll check the timing the right way.

Maxbumpo, I too live in Charleston. I think I've seen your 300TD around several times - do you live on the Peninsula?

Diesel911 · #36 03-03-2017, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxbumpo

Hmmm, the FSMs I have (in English) call them copper in several places, but that may be a poor translation from the original German.

Copper can also refer to the color.

Diesel911 · #37 03-03-2017, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxbumpo

Well, o-rings and delivery valves seals are different things. I know that the earlier OM617 engines did not use o-rings, but did they also have a delivery valve with no copper sealing ring inside?

Not trying to argue but from what I have read on this forum when someone has said the delivery valve seals are leaking on M type fuel injection pumps they have been speaking of the O-rings (and I believe there is some manuals that call them seals).

greazzer · #38 03-03-2017, 05:36 PM

Absent my shameless self-promotion, those injectors are spot on. I hope the ol'e girl is doing better.

usmma2013 · #39 03-03-2017, 05:56 PM

They are indeed spot on! So smooth you'd never know its a diesel!

Quote:

Originally Posted by greazzer

Absent my shameless self-promotion, those injectors are spot on. I hope the ol'e girl is doing better.

volker407 · #40 03-04-2017, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxbumpo

That's not correct for this pump, FSM says "torque to 40-50 Nm in one step." The FSM procedure includes the bold print.

The procedure you posted is close but not quite right for the injection pumps on the OM60x engines.

Torque to 30 Nm, release. Repeat. Torque to 30Nm, and then another 5Nm to reach 35Nm. That is written as "Torque to 30+5Nm". Procedure is found in the Technical Data Books, not in the FSM.

Yes, you are right, I had mixed that up between M pump and MW pump as I was dealing with an OM603 yesterday.

Gruß
Volker

usmma2013 · #41 03-11-2017, 06:26 PM

OK guys- I checked my timing using the proper drip method. It was around 25 degrees BTDC. The car is still running much better, very smooth, plenty of power, and no more nailing when cold. However, after all this work, I still have what I consider an unacceptable level of exhaust smoke. Please see the following videos, maybe this is "as good as it gets" for these engines, but I'm not wholly satisfied.

These are taken today, at 30 degrees ambient, engine temp around 70-80. This is on diesel with LiquiMoly additive. I do typically run on B70 (winter) or B99 (summer) so perhaps this is normal for pump diesel and I'm not used to seeing it?

(Just to re-interate in case there's any newcomers to this thread..

-New Injectors (german #1930 nozzles done by Greazzer himself ,all pop perfectly, I believe at 2050 psi)
-New timing chain and tensioner, rollled in last year
-IP verified at 25 BTDC
-Valve lash adjusted and re-checked
-Head just re-built including new valve seals, valve guides, new PC's etc.
-Turbocharger CHRA replaced (to correct oil consumption)

Diseasel300 · #42 03-11-2017, 11:26 PM

Looks like oil smoke to me. What brand, grade, and viscosity are you using? My SDL smokes a bit (not quite as much as that) from crapped up rings from sitting for 10 years. On the road it never smokes noticeably unless I'm really on the gas pedal.

Recently I did an oil change and switched it over to Rotella T6 5w-40 from Delvac 15w-40 and noticed a MARKED increase in smoke production. Future oil changes will be back with the heavier oil.

usmma2013 · #43 03-12-2017, 11:07 AM

I'm using Rotella 15w40. Since replacing the turbo It doesn't actually consume that much oil. I'll add a quart every 1500 miles or so. I do have some oil in the u-tube, annoying because its getting my brand new TC dirty :/

I wonder if it's worth doing the MMO soak for the rings. I can't imagine I have low compression though because the power is very good and it's never been run on WVO or left to sit for long periods.

Rogviler · #44 03-12-2017, 01:39 PM

I (and another friend with a 617) had better luck with running the MMO in the oil. Just follow the directions on the bottle. Doing a soak is awkward to get it in and I tried some very long soak times to no avail. If the rings are leaking I'm thinking it'll just drain through anyway. In the oil it'll get constantly bathed in it, plus heat. I first tried doing it for the last 500 miles of an oil change interval, then a full change interval and that's the one that did it.

Oil talk is guaranteed to bring out the Oprahs in the crowd (lots of thoughts and feelings, no science), so prepare for that.

-Rog

tyl604 · #45 03-12-2017, 02:05 PM

When it all comes down to it - with 242,000 miles - a little smoke, a little shaking, a bit of noise - I still think these SD's are miracle cars. I have 262,000 miles on my '81 and it just about runs as well as it did brand new.

When I was a kid, we all thought that gas engines were worn out at 100,000 miles.

So to put it in perspective, we are all doing OK.

Interesting thread.