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  #16  
Old 05-20-2017, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by ngarover View Post
But, can you do 200HP+ with a 617 and not be blowing black smoke all over hell? I would love a little more power from mine, but I don't want it "rolling coal". I want it to still be a daily driver. All built engines I see, including the few with Goran super pumps throw black smoke... and if I understand it right, that's just wasted unburnt fuel so why not back it off some? there has to be a happy medium. Next would the stock trans even handle more power? Mine getting a little long in the tooth with 500,000K on it.
Mutt makes very little black smoke and I expect he'll make even less with the big turbo. With the current turbo I get a little until the turbo gets up to speed, then no visible smoke. With the big turbo I expect a bit more early in the run (it'll take more heat to spool the big turbo up) but then even less smoke once the pressure is up.

The main reason for the big turbo is that the exhaust gas temperature (EGT) is way too high at the end of the run, nearly 1300 *F. The big compressor will pump more air and thereby lower EGY. It's also support more HP so you sort of ratchet up the power output.

Dan

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  #17  
Old 05-20-2017, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Stokes View Post
Mutt makes very little black smoke and I expect he'll make even less with the big turbo. With the current turbo I get a little until the turbo gets up to speed, then no visible smoke. With the big turbo I expect a bit more early in the run (it'll take more heat to spool the big turbo up) but then even less smoke once the pressure is up.

The main reason for the big turbo is that the exhaust gas temperature (EGT) is way too high at the end of the run, nearly 1300 *F. The big compressor will pump more air and thereby lower EGY. It's also support more HP so you sort of ratchet up the power output.

Dan
Have not seen any external videos of yours running, There are only a couple I can find showing a 617 superpump.... I believe one is an M and one is the MW.

MW pump...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa4AHNfktEk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ-TdqUvI7E

M pump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhHnADr70w8

Both smoke bad.

But... there are several om606 builds that seem to run without a lot of smoke...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziW3TnKKnKg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9ihDKq9D28

But some with a lot...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PLEK3z8qK8

etc...

A lot of smoke may be cool to some, but not for a good daily driver. Yours is track only. so not an issue. I'm actively watching this build https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPOWd3Js799wjPJDDd2TEPw om606 in a w123 with compound turbos. will be interesting to see final.
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  #18  
Old 05-21-2017, 01:13 AM
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black smoke does not mean power lol. it's unburnt fuel.. with the right intercooler and turbo and detuned alda, you shouldn't be making much smoke. if you're pushing a lot of power 300+, you're gonna get smoke under heavy throttle either way..
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  #19  
Old 05-21-2017, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ngarover View Post
Have not seen any external videos of yours running, There are only a couple I can find showing a 617 superpump.... I believe one is an M and one is the MW.

MW pump...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa4AHNfktEk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ-TdqUvI7E

M pump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhHnADr70w8

Both smoke bad.

But... there are several om606 builds that seem to run without a lot of smoke...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziW3TnKKnKg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9ihDKq9D28

But some with a lot...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PLEK3z8qK8

etc...

A lot of smoke may be cool to some, but not for a good daily driver. Yours is track only. so not an issue. I'm actively watching this build https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPOWd3Js799wjPJDDd2TEPw om606 in a w123 with compound turbos. will be interesting to see final.

Mine is an "M" based pump. I thought I had posted the videos but I don't have one taken from outside on the exhaust side. When we finally get a track again I'll see if I can jin up a camera mount and take that vid - that would be interesting.

Interesting smoke note: When I first got the SuperPump on I made the first run with the boost at 15ish psi and it smoked like a bandit all the way down the track as I expected it would. When I cranked the boost back up to 20ish it cleaned right up and went a lot faster. I had warned our track announcer that the first run would be smokey and that subsequent runs would clean up - he thought I was a magician when that happened. So another bit of proof that when the engine gets efficient the smoke goes away.

Dan
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  #20  
Old 05-22-2017, 02:16 AM
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Black smoke usually happens because people deliberately tune their engines to make it...big laggy turbos can cause smoke before spool up as the ALDA either isn't fitted/adjusted/ designed for such a wide variation in fuel and boost combinations.
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  #21  
Old 05-22-2017, 06:17 AM
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I have an original super-pump from MYNA in my '84 wagon with a small blackstone IC, enlarged PC's, altered air intake, process coated exhaust manifolds and I've removed the rear muffler. Stock turbo. I believe my HP to be around 175, and my 0-60 time is right at 9 seconds. It becomes far more complex to get more HP than Dan's or mine in a 617-95X than a 603/606.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mt7AUAnTE4
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  #22  
Old 05-22-2017, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by MTUpower View Post
I have an original super-pump from MYNA in my '84 wagon with a small blackstone IC, enlarged PC's, altered air intake, process coated exhaust manifolds and I've removed the rear muffler. Stock turbo. I believe my HP to be around 175, and my 0-60 time is right at 9 seconds. It becomes far more complex to get more HP than Dan's or mine in a 617-95X than a 603/606.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mt7AUAnTE4

You could either rent some dyno time and get a HP number or take it to the drag strip. If you have a set of drag strip numbers there are on-line calculators that will back calculate HP and they're reputed to be pretty accurate. Besides, a day at the track is kind of fun!

Dan
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  #23  
Old 05-22-2017, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Stokes View Post
You could either rent some dyno time and get a HP number or take it to the drag strip. If you have a set of drag strip numbers there are on-line calculators that will back calculate HP and they're reputed to be pretty accurate. Besides, a day at the track is kind of fun!

Dan
The online 0-60 calculator says around 170-175HP based on weight of the car and time, also you put it in your car and make sure it does not move while doing the run. I don't have the time or inkling to get more accurate than that until I install a better turbo and IC set-up.
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  #24  
Old 05-22-2017, 10:11 AM
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And my guess would be that that's about right. Just trying to lure you to the local track! And I'm a big supporter of dynos.

Dan
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  #25  
Old 05-23-2017, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by NZScott View Post
Black smoke usually happens because people deliberately tune their engines to make it...big laggy turbos can cause smoke before spool up as the ALDA either isn't fitted/adjusted/ designed for such a wide variation in fuel and boost combinations.
Yup! If you're easy on the pedal it won't smoke pre-boost.

Those videos are typically of people mashing the pedal to get boost up fast.

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