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  #1  
Old 05-29-2002, 12:14 PM
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need someone's help who has a THOUROUGH understanding of pre 85 door lock system

alright, another thread got my interest peaked in my door locks again, so against my better judgement off came the door pannel and i set off to work on it. There are three wires in the driver's side door, a red one, a blue one, and a yellow one. The red one is the "live" wire, the other two are just grounds i suppose. Reguardless which color i touch to the red wire, the same result happens, it unlocks until the pump times out. HOWEVER, if i disconnect the cabin from the main line in the trunk with a golf tee, the pump will cycle locking/unlocking the gas flap actuator and the trunk actuator. So now heres where the big DA attack came in, i decided to close my trunk, and to plug back in ALL the vacuum locks, well now, as you guessed it, i can only get the blasted thing to lock, so now i'm stuck with a gas flap that wont open, and a trunk that wont open. i can tee off the cabin line inside the cabin, and i think that will trigger it to unlock again, so i'm not THAT concerned(plus i have a full tank of gas ) but it'd be really nice to get my door locks working again. Thanks for your time
Ryan

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96 integra SE....sold
99 a4 quattro....sold
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  #2  
Old 05-29-2002, 04:00 PM
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As an ace in the hole...on my 1984 300SD there is an emerg. trunk release under the rear seat (black wire loop). One person pulls the loop while another lifts the trunk lid.
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  #3  
Old 05-29-2002, 04:07 PM
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I'm not sure this will help or perhaps you're beyond it, but I've been helped by a very detail post (don't remember but found it under searching).

I've done all four of mine this way and they've all worked.

1. On the driver's floorpan is where the green and red (yellow with green for open and yellow with red stripe for close) come in and tee off towards other parts of the car.

2. Go there first and see if vacuum is coming in with the car running. Should have vacuum in the green with button up and vacuum in the red with it down.

3. Disconnect and plug the entire right side of the car by pulling lines off the tee. This enables you to test the drivers side only (front and back). Do so with car running....up and down several times. Turn car off and see if you get several ups and downs for the driver's front and rear door

4. Then go door by door. Replug the passenger side in (these two lines will eventually feed the right front, rear, fuel and trunk locks.

5. Go to the passenger floorpan and unplug the rear part of the car so that you are now testing only the passenger front door.

6. Keep going until you find the culprit.

In my cars it generally is the rear passenger door or the fuel door.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you can't find the detailed post and I'll look it up as I have printed it. Its like 2-3 pages.

Don
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  #4  
Old 05-29-2002, 07:38 PM
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Don, just curious, why does the car have to be running? On my SD, there's this little pump I hear whirring away in the truck, seems to work the locks, or not work 'em whether the car is running or not. Would these instructions apply to an older 123 maybe?

Frank
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  #5  
Old 05-30-2002, 03:29 AM
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Ryan,
you are getting close. I had posted a thread about this a while back. Here, I'm posting it again. go to the front passenger side remove the floormate, there is a piece of black plastic panel, lift it up you'll see a 4 way connector with yellows vacuum lines connected to it. one is the cabin line you mentioned. the other three go to each door(passenger and rear doors) disconnect them one at a time and plug it with golf tee, turn the key on driver's side door to lock or unlock. it the pump getting time out you'll have to disconnect/connect the wired connector at the pump. repeat these steps for the rest of the doors.

The other way around is to use a "Mityvac" on each line to the door.

Make sure there is no crack on the 4 way connector too.

Good luck!
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  #6  
Old 05-30-2002, 04:35 PM
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Frank:

You do it both with the car running and not running. With the car shut off, you discover how long the vacuum lasts. When its running and you have vacuum problems, you can bet it some serious leaks.

Don
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'99.5 Jetta TDI IV 251k (Julie's)
'97 Jetta TDI 127k (Amber's)
'97 Jetta TDI 186k (Matt's)
'96 Passat TDI 237k (Don's
'84 300D 211k Mint (Arne- Undergoing Greasecar Conversion)

SOLD:
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  #7  
Old 05-30-2002, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by diesel don
Frank:

You do it both with the car running and not running. With the car shut off, you discover how long the vacuum lasts. When its running and you have vacuum problems, you can bet it some serious leaks.

Don
I'm confused as to where the pump in the truck comes in. Does it only supply vacuum when the car is off? When it is running, do they work in conjuction? I guess I'm under the impression, that unlike my old 123 which ran everything off the engine's vacuum pump, this car runs the locks off of that pump in the trunk.

Frank.
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  #8  
Old 05-30-2002, 08:11 PM
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I noticed something else odd about my door locks today. I let my girlfriend in through the passenger front thus unlocking that door. When I unlock the drivers door, the passenger lock goes down and as usual, the pump comes on. I don't get that. What could cause this? For the rest of the time the pump is on, the locks are pulling down.

Frank.
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  #9  
Old 05-31-2002, 12:29 AM
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I'm going to post a question on the tech help section to see if I can get some more detailed info on the lock operation. Check over there periodically if interested.

Frank.
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  #10  
Old 05-31-2002, 01:18 AM
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the electric pump supplies us SD owners with vacuum, while the engine vacuum pump supplies you W123 owners with vacuum. Two differant cars, two differant systems. I think i have narrowed my problem down to my actual pump, i have tested all systems and have no leaks to speak of. now to figure out how to get my gas flap open, i'm down to 1/2 tank!
Ryan
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  #11  
Old 05-31-2002, 09:51 AM
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Frank,
If I remember correctly when I had the problem with mine, the pump in the trunk provides vacuum to pull the lock down and supplies pressure to push the locks up when the driver's lock is actuated. When you lift the driver's side door lock, all of the locks should raise. There are wires at the driver's lock which signal the motor in the trunk. It sounds like your motor is supplying vacuum when the driver's lock is unlocked. You can disconnect the tube where it exits the pump in the trunk and check this. I believe that you indicated that you have a vacuum/pressure guage.

Tom
82 SD
86 SDL
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  #12  
Old 05-31-2002, 01:18 PM
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07 E320 Bluetec 7 pistons
 
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Tom, 83 SDs don't have that center locking feature on passenger side and the trunk locks. you can modified it with a 85 door lock diag. vacuum pump in the trunk is the only power source.

Ryan, to open the fuel door you can try a pump thru the supply line you found on passenger side. Otherwise, you'll have to use a pair of small scissors(with little curve) to push that pin back one step at a time.
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09 GL320 Bluetec 65K+
07 E320 Bluetec 43k+
05 Nissan Frontier NISMO 4X4 72K+


07 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 5k+ gone
87 300SDL 158k+ gone
91 300D 113k+ gone
83 300SD 220K+ gone
89 300E sold
87 190E sold
83 380SEL sold

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  #13  
Old 05-31-2002, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tom Sweeney
Frank,
If I remember correctly when I had the problem with mine, the pump in the trunk provides vacuum to pull the lock down and supplies pressure to push the locks up when the driver's lock is actuated. When you lift the driver's side door lock, all of the locks should raise. There are wires at the driver's lock which signal the motor in the trunk. It sounds like your motor is supplying vacuum when the driver's lock is unlocked. You can disconnect the tube where it exits the pump in the trunk and check this. I believe that you indicated that you have a vacuum/pressure guage.

Tom
82 SD
86 SDL
Now wer're getting somewhere! While I think I have a leak in the passenger front, either way I'm going to do some testing this weekend on the voltages, etc.. at that pump connector.

Thanks for the info, this will help a lot in troublshooting.

Frank.
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  #14  
Old 06-02-2002, 05:52 PM
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I'm pleased to say that your help has paid off. I confirmed the voltage is switching at the pump connector, but the pump only repsonds intermittently. I think it's a gad diode on the PCA, but no worry, just going to get a new pump.

I still have a question though. I believe I have a leak in the pass. front door based on the hand pump leak down tests from the main line in the trunk and the hissing from the pass. front door. However, I took the pass front seat out and felt all around under the carpet but couldn't find that manifold. I did find what I believe is that yellow main line going under the pass front seat and under the center console. Could this manifold be under the console, or under the driver's front seat? I'd like to see if I have any other leaks while I'm fixing them.

Frank.
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  #15  
Old 06-03-2002, 04:58 PM
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When I had the problem with mine, I traced the yellow line from the trunk and stumbled upon the mainfold under the passenger seat carpet. That's not to say that yours might be under the console or somewhere else, I am not the original owner. Have you tried tracing from the passenger door back towards the manifold? You could disassemble the door and plug the line that goes to the actuator and check out the remainder of the system with the suspect component removed. The door has to come apart eventually if the actuator is leaking.

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