Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum > Technical Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 12-31-2017, 10:26 AM
Diseasel300's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 3,600
Not saying dirt and grime isn't a contributor to the problem, but this bolt is *IN THERE*. The torque spec is only 45nm which is not all that tight in the grand scheme of things, but this sucker laughed at a 24" cheater handle. I'm pretty sure this is the original water pump and original fan clutch, so if that's the case they've had 31+ years to become one with each other.

The lack of clearance is a serious hinderance too. I fail to understand why Mercedes couldn't have slipped a nut behind the clutch like - oh I don't know - EVERYONE ELSE. Putting an Allen (which I've learned to HATE since working on this car) in a high debris/heat/vibration area is just asking for trouble, especially when providing only about an inch of clearance to get to it. I'm on board with using XZN for replacement, I hate Allens with a passion.
__________________
'11 Honda Accord EX - "The Daily" 60K
'83 500SL Euro - "The Money Pit" 116K
'86 300SDL - "The Diseasel" 184K
The Diseasel Thread - Everything You Didn't Know You Wanted To Know
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-31-2017, 10:38 AM
funola's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 8,077
I doubt Diseasel300 made the novice mistake of not cleaning it out first.

Other novice mistakes:

1. Break loose a fastener by applying steady torque. Don't do that! You want to impact the breaker bar with your palm or a mallet.

2. Having the Allen bit off center.

I have stripped my share of Allen heads even taking all the precautions. They are just an old and inferior design. I got the stripped Allens out by hammering and forcing an XZN bit into the Allen and got them out every time. I think it works better than Easy Outs (I do not own any).
__________________
85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-31-2017, 11:02 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 177
I was almost there myself in my SDL. Someone had rounded out most of the Allen bolt in a prior attempt. Fortunately, I could get just enough of bite and was able to pop it loose.

When I inquired about a replacement bolt at a local McParts store they insisted I had to buy a water pump to get it...

The replacement bolt from the Mercedes dealer is a T55 Torx, if I recall correctly, and they had one on the shelf.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-06-2018, 08:27 PM
Diseasel300's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 3,600
To answer the original question of this thread:

If the head rounds out, forget extracting it in the car. The water pump can be removed with the clutch/pulley/fan still attached. The bottom bolt is a pain to get to, but it's doable with a box end wrench.

I pulled the radiator, airbox, and rubber intake tube. To give access to the bolts on the water pump, I had to remove the belt tensioner. A 1/4" ratchet got out all but 2 of the water pump bolts.

The water pump itself appears to have been original. It's branded Lazo and says it was made in W. Germany. That kind of dates it! Bearings are most certainly done - when spun it makes the most horrible growling and squealing noises. Fan clutch is a newer Behr, the front of which has quite a lot of oil built up on it.

Getting that bolt of though. Sheesh. Tried hammering the Torx bit in, rounded out the head. Tried using an Easy-out, wound up rounding out the head more. I welded a 9/16 nut to the bolt head using the MIG welder and it broke off. Ground it down, welded it again, and it broke a 2nd time. Tired of that crap, I whipped out the stick welder and did a proper welding job. This time it held, but required the use of a bolt extractor, a breaker handle, and a 3' cheater handle to get it off. There is no way that bolt was ever coming out with the Allen bit, no possible chance.
Attached Thumbnails
603 Fan Clutch Bolt Rounded Out - Now What...-img_1825.jpg   603 Fan Clutch Bolt Rounded Out - Now What...-img_1826.jpg   603 Fan Clutch Bolt Rounded Out - Now What...-img_1827.jpg  
__________________
'11 Honda Accord EX - "The Daily" 60K
'83 500SL Euro - "The Money Pit" 116K
'86 300SDL - "The Diseasel" 184K
The Diseasel Thread - Everything You Didn't Know You Wanted To Know
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-06-2018, 09:20 PM
dieselmania's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tucson, Arizona, USA
Posts: 552
Is that the Irwin bolt extractor kit?
__________________
Brian
87 300Dturbo 160K #14 head still running R-12
02 F350 Powerstroke 170K
05 Chevy Express 1 ton w/Royal Utility box 100K
08 Infiniti FX-35 39K
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-06-2018, 09:23 PM
Diseasel300's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 3,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselmania View Post
Is that the Irwin bolt extractor kit?
Yes it is. Worked like a pro on this job. You can see how much it mangled the bolt I used it on, that's how tight that sucker was in there.
__________________
'11 Honda Accord EX - "The Daily" 60K
'83 500SL Euro - "The Money Pit" 116K
'86 300SDL - "The Diseasel" 184K
The Diseasel Thread - Everything You Didn't Know You Wanted To Know
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-06-2018, 09:29 PM
Mad Scientist
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,337
What a mess!

Well done getting it out, quite a job.
__________________
1990 617 swapped Toyota Pickup 4x4, 22-24 MPG, 44k miles on swap
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-06-2018, 09:32 PM
dieselmania's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tucson, Arizona, USA
Posts: 552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diseasel300 View Post
Yes it is. Worked like a pro on this job. You can see how much it mangled the bolt I used it on, that's how tight that sucker was in there.
Good to know, I bought one a while back and have not used it yet.
__________________
Brian
87 300Dturbo 160K #14 head still running R-12
02 F350 Powerstroke 170K
05 Chevy Express 1 ton w/Royal Utility box 100K
08 Infiniti FX-35 39K
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-07-2018, 08:22 AM
vstech's Avatar
DD MOD, HVAC,MCP,Mac,GMAC
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mount Holly, NC
Posts: 26,138
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselmania View Post
Good to know, I bought one a while back and have not used it yet.
The Irwin in set is good... the snap on set is best.

Irwin has huge body sockets with external sides for a wrench.

Snap on set is very svelte but only has socket connectors, so it can be used in tight spaces.
__________________
John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-07-2018, 08:26 AM
oldsinner111's Avatar
a parent should die first
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: bristol,tn
Posts: 5,087
I have same set,and easy outs also.Never leave home without it.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-07-2018, 08:34 AM
Control Freak
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 3,114
Just speaking from my personal experience with 2 different OM60x engines, if the bolt was in there that tight, it was not factory. Especially since you said the fan clutch looked recent (assuming before your time with the car).

Either someone cross threaded or massively overtorqued that bolt in the past.

Both of my OM60xs have had their fan clutch/fan replaced and the Allen bolt came out with just a L shaped 8 mm hex key with a 1/4 drive 8mm socket on the long end in a nut driver handle. I used a HF Pulley Tool to provide the counter hold.

In both cases the bolt was snug but nothing like what you found.
__________________
2014 ML350 Bluetec (wife's DD)
2008 E320 Bluetec (my DD)
2008 ML320 CDI (Older son's college DD)
1998 E300DT (Younger son's college DD)
1987 300TD sold to vstech
----------
gone but living on
1983 240D (body to greazzer, engine to t walgamuth)
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-07-2018, 10:19 AM
Diseasel300's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 3,600
The water pump is factory and certainly looks it inside. The fan clutch I'm not sure about. Looking at the Bimetal I pulled out of it yesterday, it's relatively clean and has a surprisingly clean Behr sticker on it. I am leaning towards the clutch being replaced at some point before the car was parked and Dope-O the Clown buzzing that sucker in there with a rattle gun. This is why I work on my own cars...
__________________
'11 Honda Accord EX - "The Daily" 60K
'83 500SL Euro - "The Money Pit" 116K
'86 300SDL - "The Diseasel" 184K
The Diseasel Thread - Everything You Didn't Know You Wanted To Know
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-08-2018, 01:50 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Central CA
Posts: 650
Mine was factory and was VERY tight. I had cheater bar on a high quality Allen key and bounced a hammer off the bar a bunch of times before it cracked loose....but I was sweating bullets the whole time that it would strip.
__________________
Mechanical Engineer -- I design and make otherwise unavailable car parts.

Garage:

2005 Volvo S40 T5 AWD, 71k
1998 Saturn SL2, 244k - 35 mpg (gone, never forgotten)
1987 Mercedes-Benz 300D turbodiesel, 4 sp auto, 155k - 28.7 mpg
1993 Tracker 4x4, 2 door, 8v, 3 sp auto. 134k - 25 mpg
1996 Tracker 4x4, 2 door, 16v, 3 sp auto. 108k - 28.6 mpg
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-08-2018, 03:12 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 790
Quote:
Originally Posted by vollpreuss View Post

The replacement bolt from the Mercedes dealer is a T55 Torx, if I recall correctly, and they had one on the shelf.

Mercedes also changed to a torx head T55 for the 606 engine in my '98 e300. I bought one from a Mercedes dealer when I changed my fan clutch a year or two ago. Either by design or accident, that bolt also accepts an 8mm hex socket. I used the 8mm stubby socket made by Stahlwille (a Mercedes tool part no. 103 01 98) which I bought from Samstag to put it in my car. (The Mercedes parts salesman told me I could use an 8mm socket when I bought the torx head bolt.) You have to use a stubby socket, because there is so little clearance between the radiator and the bolt.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-08-2018, 03:27 PM
Mad Scientist
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselmania View Post
Good to know, I bought one a while back and have not used it yet.
May that forever continue to be the case.
__________________
1990 617 swapped Toyota Pickup 4x4, 22-24 MPG, 44k miles on swap
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page