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  #1  
Old 11-07-2018, 04:50 PM
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OM616 Injection pump oiling...?

Hey alls..


So I'm looking at swapping my pneumatic governor IP for a mechanical governed pump from a later 616. (Mine is a '75 W115).


I know that my pump has it's own oil sump and that the block supposedly doesn't have the ports for sending oil to the later model injection pump.



I'm sure I can find a way to supply oil to the pump... question is how does it drain back to the crank case on the 616.912 engines? I know there is a supply line for IP oil... but I don't see a return line. Does the oil return via the front of the pump back to the timing case?


Thanks

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  #2  
Old 11-07-2018, 05:54 PM
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I think the drain pipe is the external obvious one and that the supply comes through the intermediate shaft - I might have that the wrong way round - I'm slowly getting back into the Mercedes world at the moment.


There's a good description in the FSM which deserves reading (or in my case re-reading)



There were a few threads on this conversion back in the day (pre-2012) that I remember. If I find them I'll post a link.
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



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  #3  
Old 11-08-2018, 12:27 AM
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I guess being in the states you're stuck with an MW pump if you want to say bye to the pneumatic governor.

MWs have the oil supply line to the governor housing and just return through the front as normal.
I would double check you don't have the oil supply hole on your block, as my M pump equipped 617 has one.

If it doesn't you can get oil pressure fitting T adaptors for turbo feeds which might work, or just tap somewhere else post oil filter. For my turbo I tapped the centre stem of the oil filter lid and blocked off the bottom.
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1977 250 parts car
1977 280> 300D - 500,000km+
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  #4  
Old 11-08-2018, 01:09 AM
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It is slowly coming back to me!

Here's a PDF showing the differences in oil supply

https://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/outside/12265/disc_2/program/Engine/615/07-200.pdf
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #5  
Old 11-08-2018, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
I'm slowly getting back into the Mercedes world at the moment.


welcome back mate




.
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  #6  
Old 11-08-2018, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cho View Post
welcome back mate




.
Nice to see you too!
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #7  
Old 11-08-2018, 11:55 AM
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I should have made it clearer =>



Quote:
Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
It is slowly coming back to me!

Here's a PDF showing the differences in oil supply

https://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/outside/12265/disc_2/program/Engine/615/07-200.pdf
<= The point about the information is...
...if you can get your hands on the MW/RSF pump with the appropriate intermediate shaft then you don't need to modify the block / probably don't need to modify the block assuming the intermediate shafts are interchangeable
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #8  
Old 11-08-2018, 03:37 PM
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Thats what I needed! So it would be as simple as just plumbing oil supply to the pump and installing. I'm pretty sure none of the 616.916s had the oil port for the pump.. but I'll check. Planning on throwing a little boost to it so this pneumatic pump has to go.
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  #9  
Old 11-08-2018, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NZScott View Post
I guess being in the states you're stuck with an MW pump if you want to say bye to the pneumatic governor.

MWs have the oil supply line to the governor housing and just return through the front as normal.
I would double check you don't have the oil supply hole on your block, as my M pump equipped 617 has one.

If it doesn't you can get oil pressure fitting T adaptors for turbo feeds which might work, or just tap somewhere else post oil filter. For my turbo I tapped the centre stem of the oil filter lid and blocked off the bottom.

Do you have any pictures or references of where the oil supply line is on the pump itself? The pump I'm looking at is an MW for sure.
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  #10  
Old 11-08-2018, 10:51 PM
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Look at the front of the Fuel Injection Pump behind the splined gear and you will see an opening and that is where the oil drains out of the Fuel Injection Pump. See the yellow outline in the picture.

See if the splined gear on the old Fuel Injection Pump has an O-ring on it and do the same with the newer Fuel Injection Pump.

It is hard to see in the pic but is shows an Oil Outlet and an Oil Inlet on the ones that have the O-ring. I have not ever seen one of those.

Can't help more till we know what you have. Hopefully both fuel injection pumps have no O-ring on them.
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OM616 Injection pump oiling...?-fuel-injection-pump-gear-end-2018.jpg  
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  #11  
Old 11-09-2018, 04:56 AM
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Just in case there is a bit of confusion:

There is a difference between a MW pump and the MW/RSF pump (please see link I posted)
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #12  
Old 11-10-2018, 12:42 AM
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The pump on the car now has it's own oil which must be changed separately. The car is a '75 240d (616.912) with a pneumatic governor.

The pump I just ordered (found used on ebay) has the oil line shown on page 14 of the link you posted.

From my understanding, as long as I feed that port from a pressurized oil supply, I should be good for the conversion... if my thinking is correct.

The number on the pump I have on the way is...
RW375/2200MW27

Not sure of the part number on my pump... just know that it wont work with what I want to do.

Thanks for the help guys.
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  #13  
Old 11-10-2018, 12:29 PM
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List of serial numbers given here in the FSM

https://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/outside/12265/disc_2/program/Engine/615/07-001.pdf
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #14  
Old 11-10-2018, 08:29 PM
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You mentioned you are "throwing some boost" at it. Do tell! What are your plans?
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  #15  
Old 11-12-2018, 11:19 AM
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At this point, getting the mechanical gov. IP to function on the engine is first.. but then just a small charger and 8-10psi.


Nothing crazy... but I've noticed on all of my alternative fueled engines, boost seems to help get the cleanest burn.


My 7.3 IDI runs on a diet of centrifuged waste motor oil/hydraulic oil blended with 10% gasoline. It starts and warms up on diesel fuel... once at temp, runs on oil. Prior to boost, it didn't run as clean as I wanted it to. Now... it doesn't so much as haze unless I let it idle for extended periods. Makes good power and runs great. No coking issues... no bs.


I had some coking issues with the 240 that I'm hoping will go away with a little more air flow. A little extra umph certainly wont hurt my feelings either. Lol

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