so..how long before diesels are outlawed? - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

martureo · #46 12-10-2018, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Father Of Giants

My question is WHY?

Lets break this down with FACTS

.Only 28% of the total output of emissions is caused by transportation.
Only 3% of passenger vehicles sold are diesels. Add to that, nitrous oxide only makes 5% of ALL the TOTAL SUM of all emissions. Of that TOTAL SUM of all nitrous oxide, the vast majority of it is SOIL MANAGEMENT, transportation only accounts for a mere 5% of it. Stationary engines another 5%.
Click on nitrous oxide to see the facts.
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/overview-greenhouse-gases

The EPA themselves even stated that Nitrous oxide make up a relatively small percentage of transportation emissions.
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/us-greenhouse-gas-inventory-report-1990-2014

If my math is right, transportation only accounts for .05% ( to 1% if you want to include stationary engines) of the TOTAL Nitrous Oxide output.

Why ban something that's BARELY contributing to the total sum of emissions? What impact will that make? Let me help you out, next to none. Diesels are merely a scapegoat for a political agenda.

Liberals/leftist want to ban something with no good reason why, even when logic/facts topples said reason/issue.

Laughable, Diesels are destroying the United States, but cold hard facts refute such BASELESS claims

I don't know if you're trying to miss the point or if you were just oblivious of it. The amount of a gas being released does not always directly correspond to the effect of that gas being released. I could release an amount of two gases resulting in 100 ppm of CO2 (Carbon Dioxide) into a room and 100 ppm of Flourine gas into the same room. One gas would be deadly and the other almost harmless.

As to NOx, the harm these gases is greater per amount than is that caused by CO2. The links to the EPA website you gave makes this pretty clear.

In 2016, nitrous oxide (N2O) accounted for about 6 percent of all U.S. greenhouse gas emissions from human activities. Human activities such as agriculture, fuel combustion, wastewater management, and industrial processes are increasing the amount of N2O in the atmosphere. Nitrous oxide is also naturally present in the atmosphere as part of the Earth's nitrogen cycle, and has a variety of natural sources. Nitrous oxide molecules stay in the atmosphere for an average of 114 years before being removed by a sink or destroyed through chemical reactions. The impact of 1 pound of N2O on warming the atmosphere is almost 300 times that of 1 pound of carbon dioxide.

https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/overview-greenhouse-gases#nitrous-oxide

Father Of Giants · #47 12-10-2018, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martureo

I don't know if you're trying to miss the point or if you were just oblivious of it. The amount of a gas being released does not always directly correspond to the effect of that gas being released. I could release an amount of two gases resulting in 100 ppm of CO2 (Carbon Dioxide) into a room and 100 ppm of Flourine gas into the same room. One gas would be deadly and the other almost harmless.

As to NOx, the harm these gases is greater per amount than is that caused by CO2. The links to the EPA website you gave makes this pretty clear.

In 2016, nitrous oxide (N2O) accounted for about 6 percent of all U.S. greenhouse gas emissions from human activities. Human activities such as agriculture, fuel combustion, wastewater management, and industrial processes are increasing the amount of N2O in the atmosphere. Nitrous oxide is also naturally present in the atmosphere as part of the Earth's nitrogen cycle, and has a variety of natural sources. Nitrous oxide molecules stay in the atmosphere for an average of 114 years before being removed by a sink or destroyed through chemical reactions. The impact of 1 pound of N2O on warming the atmosphere is almost 300 times that of 1 pound of carbon dioxide.

https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/overview-greenhouse-gases#nitrous-oxide

I stand corrected. However the fact remains diesel engines make up only a tiny 10% of nitrous oxide output.

Frank Reiner · #48 12-10-2018, 05:27 PM

Paying a bit of attention to the chemical structure of the various compounds could be significant to this discussion.

Those regulatory bodies that concern themselves with automotive exhaust emissions focus on oxides of nitrogen (NOx), particularly NO2, and to a lesser degree NO. As pointed out by Shortsguy, it is the reaction of NO2 with unburned hydrocarbons that produces smog and ground level ozone.

The introduction of comments about nitrous oxide (N2O) is not particularly relevant to a discussion about diesel exhaust.

N2O, aka, "nitrous" is used as a supplemental oxidizer in internal combustion engines, and as such ENTERS the engine.
NO2 is a component of the exhaust of the engine, and as such EXITS the engine.

pawoSD · #49 12-10-2018, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay_bob

Ok so the original Model S uses 16850 cells. They now have a newer 2170 cell for the M3.

Regardless of what exact cell is used, how many of you get more than 2 yrs heavy day in day out use on your mobile phones and laptops, which all use Li-Ion technology.

Even if they found some magical batteries that maintain their full performance over more than a few years, I still can’t get past driving a vehicle with high voltage/current dc onboard.

My last cell phone lasted over 4 years of daily nearly complete discharge of the battery before I retired it. (heavy user here) It still works fine but is probably around 70% capacity max now.

I manage a substantial fleet of laptops (hundreds) and average battery endurance of a quality battery is about 600-700 cycles before its degraded to about 60-65% remaining capacity....or around 4 years. They cost about $75 to replace if needed....cheap compared to what the laptop itself cost.

TimFreeh · #50 12-11-2018, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zulfiqar

This vehicle drove for 400K miles without, suspension work? (ball joints etc?) - rolling stock work (bearings) or cooling system maintenance? - Just one brake job in its life.

I know a shop in Norway servicing tesla S, they have a plethora of ball joint, air struts and brake work - along with tire work on Tesla S.

The 400k mile Tesla often cited by the Tesla fan-boys as a shining example of the long-term viability of Tesla cars and Li-on battery packs had its battery packs replaced over the course of 400K. Well actually they were replaced twice.

The five cents per mile cost of operation over the $400K miles doesn't count the costs associated with two battery pack replacements or electric charging costs since Tesla provided both for free.

Nice gesture on Teslas part but its not really sustainable on a continuing basis.

oldsinner111 · #51 12-11-2018, 11:15 AM

In other news yawn, Malhe been working 12 hour shifts 7 days a week,with no let up in sight,making ford diesel pistons,and others.Also camshaft division wide open.

oldsinner111 · #52 12-11-2018, 11:51 AM

remember that when you buy these new asian built diesel,Ford uses Mercedes brand pistons.

Zulfiqar · #53 12-11-2018, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldsinner111

remember that when you buy these new asian built diesel,Ford uses Mercedes brand pistons.

I think they are using kolbenschmidt ones - which benz use too.

Zulfiqar · #54 12-11-2018, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimFreeh

The 400k mile Tesla often cited by the Tesla fan-boys as a shining example of the long-term viability of Tesla cars and Li-on battery packs had its battery packs replaced over the course of 400K. Well actually they were replaced twice.

The five cents per mile cost of operation over the $400K miles doesn't count the costs associated with two battery pack replacements or electric charging costs since Tesla provided both for free.

Nice gesture on Teslas part but its not really sustainable on a continuing basis.

I was wondering the same and also wondering if I used a tesla S and drove it 400K miles living in Kenya, what will my costs be?

tjts1 · #55 12-11-2018, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimFreeh

The 400k mile Tesla often cited by the Tesla fan-boys as a shining example of the long-term viability of Tesla cars and Li-on battery packs had its battery packs replaced over the course of 400K. Well actually they were replaced twice.

You seem to forget that two Tesla battery packs are far cheaper then 400000 miles worth of diesel fuel and repairs, or that the Tesla battery packs can either be recycled or used for stationary power after their on Road days are over. But hey don't let me burst your elitist bubble.

Dubyagee · #56 12-11-2018, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

You seem to forget that two Tesla battery packs are far cheaper then 400000 miles worth of diesel fuel and repairs, or that the Tesla battery packs can either be recycled or used for stationary power after their on Road days are over. But hey don't let me burst your elitist bubble.

But wait, what about biofuels? What about realistic down time and range? What about average charging rates. Yadayadayada.

Zulfiqar · #57 12-11-2018, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

You seem to forget that two Tesla battery packs are far cheaper then 400000 miles worth of diesel fuel and repairs, or that the Tesla battery packs can either be recycled or used for stationary power after their on Road days are over. But hey don't let me burst your elitist bubble.

Im also not buying the fact that the mercedes airmatic shocks Tesla use didnt fail in 400K of lugging a heavy vehicle around, and the cartoonishly small ball joints didnt wear out or the wheel bearings didnt wear out on american roads.

Zulfiqar · #58 12-11-2018, 03:38 PM

USA is so heavily reliant on diesel engines that a small shift in the availability of diesel can hurt the economy. The only way out of diesel usage would be to run railways to every big city and then intercity corridors carry the cargo on electric vehicles.

OR

kill the idea of "suburbia" and start living like old euro cities are built - commerce right in between residential and almost always at the banks of a river.

Clemson88 · #59 12-12-2018, 06:51 AM

I think natural gas will displace the diesel for the most part in commercial use. The car industry will slowly phase diesels out and we will all die of old age and our cars will be crushed.

The EPA has economic impact restriction which will not allow for the 'door to be slammed,' on diesel engines.

Mxfrank · #60 12-12-2018, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clemson88

I think natural gas will displace the diesel for the most part in commercial use. The car industry will slowly phase diesels out and we will all die of old age and our cars will be crushed.

The EPA has economic impact restriction which will not allow for the 'door to be slammed,' on diesel engines.

You could run a Diesel on natural gas...