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  #31  
Old 12-25-2018, 10:43 PM
vwnate1's Avatar
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Talking Mechanic's Don't Get No Respect

I guess it matters where you ply the trade, I've plumbed a _lot_ of toilets and unstuck many more, no one ever calls until the situation is grim .

Yes, quite similar works but different tools and parts .
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  #32  
Old 12-25-2018, 10:50 PM
Shadetree
 
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No, not in the least.

The economic impact of swapping to electrical motors will keep the internal combustion engines in manufacturing for another 50 years.
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  #33  
Old 12-26-2018, 01:49 PM
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Electric cars may become the norm. At minimum, something like the actual intent of the BMW i3, which has a battery for true EV operations, and then a mere 35kW engine, to give non0-trivial charging capability and a little boost, but essentially always able to be operated optimally loaded for maxmium SFC and optimized pollution characteristics.

The energy density of liquid fuels is just so much higher. Not even close. Batteries/hybrids make a major benefit on consumption in many ways, but not pure range and operations untethered.

Our pollution laws turn great ideas like the i3 into stupid ones, where the engine can only run in certain scenarios when the battery is too low, etc.

So Id bet on hybrids, or actually more likely, PHEVs, to get the best of all worlds, and then the optimization on the engines being limited to a small dynamic range.

As for jobs? Nope. Just trading one thing for another. All the suspension/interior/etc will be the same or worse. Youre just trading an engine person for an inverter and battery person.
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  #34  
Old 12-26-2018, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Of Giants View Post
If you had to pick or recommend one uut of the two, which would you recommend?


I'm up for learning programming.
Tough call... electrician work is very repetitive, the tough stuff is dealing with old plaster walls...
Or apartment buildings, where everything is mapped out by the architect...

HVAC is more rewarding, dealing with customers needing comfort solutions.
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  #35  
Old 12-27-2018, 01:11 PM
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The diagnose equipment should be only used as a direction of the fault but NEVER as precise indication.

Some fault codes are triggered by other factors. Let's say I had a car with P0340 (camshaft position sensor). But, the sensor is ok.

Turns out to be a faulty valve switch solenoid (VVTi). So not all faults are just one thing with these modern cars.

I don't think EV will overtake ICE as alternative fuels should be introduced. EV is just a part of the start. I already see Volt on the scrapyard because of a broken battery. Car is only 3.5years old? So which car is making more pollution?

Because here in Europe an average battery pack will cost over 4000$ and the car after 4 years is 4000$. So economically its totaled.
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  #36  
Old 12-27-2018, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHZR2 View Post
Electric cars may become the norm. At minimum, something like the actual intent of the BMW i3, which has a battery for true EV operations, and then a mere 35kW engine, to give non0-trivial charging capability and a little boost, but essentially always able to be operated optimally loaded for maxmium SFC and optimized pollution characteristics.

The energy density of liquid fuels is just so much higher. Not even close. Batteries/hybrids make a major benefit on consumption in many ways, but not pure range and operations untethered.

Our pollution laws turn great ideas like the i3 into stupid ones, where the engine can only run in certain scenarios when the battery is too low, etc.

So Id bet on hybrids, or actually more likely, PHEVs, to get the best of all worlds, and then the optimization on the engines being limited to a small dynamic range.

As for jobs? Nope. Just trading one thing for another. All the suspension/interior/etc will be the same or worse. Youre just trading an engine person for an inverter and battery person.

Inductive charging from power lines embedded in highways could cure range anxiety:

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/qualcomms-inductive-charging-road-could-change-the-way-we-build-evs/
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  #37  
Old 12-27-2018, 03:05 PM
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Meanwhile if all those electric cars are going to be refueled from the grid we have a long, long ways to go before the grid can handle it. Not to mention the energy corporations will get their money and the cost of operation will go up as a result. I would like to see it happen but more on a solar basis, which still needs more advancement to be adequate.
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  #38  
Old 12-27-2018, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsp300D View Post
The diagnose equipment should be only used as a direction of the fault but NEVER as precise indication.

Some fault codes are triggered by other factors. Let's say I had a car with P0340 (camshaft position sensor). But, the sensor is ok.

Turns out to be a faulty valve switch solenoid (VVTi). So not all faults are just one thing with these modern cars.
This is exactly why I always push for posters to list the detailed description of the trouble code. Too many just post a basic code and a " Tell me what to change " or list a P1234 ( engine ), say they changed the engine and the problem is still there.

Many detailed codes will list a component and what the computer is seeing that it does not like. Signal intermittent , signal low , signal high , signal implausible . These give clues as _what to test for_ NOT _ what part to change_.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsp300D View Post
I don't think EV will overtake ICE as alternative fuels should be introduced. EV is just a part of the start. I already see Volt on the scrapyard because of a broken battery. Car is only 3.5years old? So which car is making more pollution?

Because here in Europe an average battery pack will cost over 4000$ and the car after 4 years is 4000$. So economically its totaled.
I really doubt that a 4 year old car is only worth 4 K. And besides, as far as I know, the volt can still be driven on gas if the propulsion battery fails.
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  #39  
Old 12-28-2018, 03:15 AM
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Not gonna happen any time soon. Diesel cars and trucks won’t go anywhere for at least 40 years or more. The cost of the batteries and the downtime to recharge is ridiculous. You think companies are gonna take a huge hit on some electric POS? Those trucks need to run not sitting at a charging station while the driver is sticking his thumb up his, well you know!

Besides,.. quit selling diesel and you can make your own biodiesel.
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  #40  
Old 12-28-2018, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by jake12tech View Post
Not gonna happen any time soon. Diesel cars and trucks won’t go anywhere for at least 40 years or more. The cost of the batteries and the downtime to recharge is ridiculous.
For over the road trucks, there will be a battery change out for faster turn around. The first to try this will be freight companies for depot to depot runs since this is a stable route with known energy requirements.

Next will be inner city routes where energy use is slightly more variable and then suburb / rural routes where the trip routs is less stable. We are no where near an owner operator running an electric truck.

The real future is natural gas, UPS has moved many trucks to this fuel. I've also seen gas turbine / electric drive trucks in the design phase. This is a real alternative to 100 % electric. A small battery pack can be used for yard moves and the turbine on the road. This battery also gives the option of recovering energy lost in braking.

Also, battery powered mini excavators exist right now from many manufacturers. Enter " battery powered excavator " in your google machine. The target is in a building where fumes can't be contained / exhausted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jake12tech View Post
You think companies are gonna take a huge hit on some electric POS?

Those trucks need to run not sitting at a charging station while the driver is sticking his thumb up his, well you know!
When anyone starts to leans towards " language " to make their point and randomly says things are " junk " without any real reasons to back it up, that tells me that they don't understand the problem.
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  #41  
Old 12-28-2018, 09:57 AM
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Post Electric Delivery Trucks

"We are no where near an owner operator running an electric truck. "

Coca-Cola has been using all electric beverage delivery trucks for some years now in the Los Angeles basin .

I always wonder ow far such a heavy vehicle can go when loaded .
__________________
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1982 240D creampuff 370,000 miles
1978 300CD back from the dead&1980 300CD ~ SOLD
1984 300CD KEEPER ! 430,XXX miles
1984 Euro 300TD Fully optioned SWMBO's
1974 350SLC 4 speed stickshift SOLD & missed
Krazy Kommie Ural Motos (3)
BMW Moto R60/6 Barn Find, 8,000miles
1959 VW #113 Deuxe Beetle, 36hp engine, stock
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  #42  
Old 12-28-2018, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwnate1 View Post
"We are no where near an owner operator running an electric truck. "

Coca-Cola has been using all electric beverage delivery trucks for some years now in the Los Angeles basin .

I always wonder ow far such a heavy vehicle can go when loaded .
Owner / operator is a guy that bought his own truck and moves loads for others. This can be on his trailer or someone eases trailer.

Truck fleets have fixed depots where charging and battery change out infrastructure can be located. Until a battery standard is adhered to and on the road facilities built out, the OO won't get an electric truck.

I'm guessing that this same discussion occurred when wind power moved to water wheels to steam to gasoline.
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  #43  
Old 12-28-2018, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
For over the road trucks, there will be a battery change out for faster turn around. The first to try this will be freight companies for depot to depot runs since this is a stable route with known energy requirements.

Next will be inner city routes where energy use is slightly more variable and then suburb / rural routes where the trip routs is less stable. We are no where near an owner operator running an electric truck.

The real future is natural gas, UPS has moved many trucks to this fuel. I've also seen gas turbine / electric drive trucks in the design phase. This is a real alternative to 100 % electric. A small battery pack can be used for yard moves and the turbine on the road. This battery also gives the option of recovering energy lost in braking.

Also, battery powered mini excavators exist right now from many manufacturers. Enter " battery powered excavator " in your google machine. The target is in a building where fumes can't be contained / exhausted.



When anyone starts to leans towards " language " to make their point and randomly says things are " junk " without any real reasons to back it up, that tells me that they don't understand the problem.
I listened to what you had to say until your last sentence. Sorry professor for my profane language I will refrain. And I repeat I know nothing! Absolutely nothing about anything. Especially relating to this subject! Zero!
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  #44  
Old 12-28-2018, 07:18 PM
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I suspect that fleets may find it advantageous to exchange tractors rather than change batteries. OO's aren't on the road 24 hours, and so charging infrastructure at rest stops may address that problem. I don't see the need for a standard battery pack, but a standard charging inductor or connector is key. Another point is that the roof of a 45 ft trailer offers enough space for an 8KW solar array, which can add range in some applications. Long haul electric is barely viable today, but the path for improvement is clear.
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  #45  
Old 12-29-2018, 01:05 AM
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Diesel Dandy
 
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Thumbs up OOPS !

O.K., I got it .

-Nate

Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
Owner / operator is a guy that bought his own truck and moves loads for others. This can be on his trailer or someone eases trailer.

Truck fleets have fixed depots where charging and battery change out infrastructure can be located. Until a battery standard is adhered to and on the road facilities built out, the OO won't get an electric truck.

I'm guessing that this same discussion occurred when wind power moved to water wheels to steam to gasoline.
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