so..how long before diesels are outlawed?

[doofus]

the writing is on the wall, plainly enough..climate change is on everybody’s mind, and fingers are being pointed. Thoughts?

[oldsinner111]

believe me climate change is good,the earth will take care of CO2,by growing further north trees.When to much oxygen is made,animals get massive to they won't die from to much oxygen.With huge amount of oxygen natural ice age comes back.Weight on the crust causes more volcano's CO2 and the world warms up again.
The problem is no diesel,or gasoline engines,it's oil.We can make cleaner fuels.

[Stretch]

In the Netherlands I expect they will be forced off the road before 2020.

Lots of them are already banned from entering several large cities.

[tjts1]

The sooner the better.

[Father Of Giants]

Originally Posted by tjts1

The sooner the better.

Originally Posted by martureo

Diesel emits more NOx than petrol when combusted.

My question is WHY?

Lets break this down with FACTS .Only 28% of the total output of emissions is caused by transportation.
Only 3% of passenger vehicles sold are diesels. Add to that, nitrous oxide only makes 5% of ALL the TOTAL SUM of all emissions. Of that TOTAL SUM of all nitrous oxide, the vast majority of it is SOIL MANAGEMENT, transportation only accounts for a mere 5% of it. Stationary engines another 5%.
Click on nitrous oxide to see the facts.
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/overview-greenhouse-gases


The EPA themselves even stated that Nitrous oxide make up a relatively small percentage of transportation emissions.
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/us-greenhouse-gas-inventory-report-1990-2014

If my math is right, transportation only accounts for .05% ( to 1% if you want to include stationary engines) of the TOTAL Nitrous Oxide output.

Why ban something that's BARELY contributing to the total sum of emissions? What impact will that make? Let me help you out, next to none. Diesels are merely a scapegoat for a political agenda.

Liberals/leftist want to ban something with no good reason why, even when logic/facts topples said reason/issue.

Laughable, Diesels are destroying the United States, but cold hard facts refute such BASELESS claims

[Squiggle Dog]

Or, instead of banning diesels we could use clean-burning, renewable biodiesel.

[tbomachines]

Originally Posted by Father Of Giants

My question is WHY?

Lets break this down with FACTS .Only 28% of the total output of emissions is caused by transportation.
Only 3% of passenger vehicles sold are diesels. Add to that, nitrous oxide only makes 5% of ALL the TOTAL SUM of all emissions. Of that TOTAL SUM of all nitrous oxide, the vast majority of it is SOIL MANAGEMENT, transportation only accounts for a mere 5% of it. Stationary engines another 5%.
Click on nitrous oxide to see the facts.
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/overview-greenhouse-gases


The EPA themselves even stated that Nitrous oxide make up a relatively small percentage of transportation emissions.
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/us-greenhouse-gas-inventory-report-1990-2014

If my math is right, transportation only accounts for .05% ( to 1% if you want to include stationary engines) of the TOTAL Nitrous Oxide output.

Why ban something that's BARELY contributing to the total sum of emissions? What impact will that make? Let me help you out, next to none. Diesels are merely a scapegoat for a political agenda.


It's the same logic as banning rifles when they make up .05% of total homides.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-4.xls

I know rifles are off topic but they fall in the same exact situation. Liberals/leftist wanting to ban something with no good reason why, even when logic/facts topples said reason/issue.:

Laughable, Diesels (and rifles) are destroying the United States, but cold hard facts refute such BASELESS claims

yes, let's equate diesel and rifles. Great job.

[Father Of Giants]

Originally Posted by tbomachines

yes, let's equate diesel and rifles. Great job.

I see your comprehension is lacking so I fixed the post.

Besides that my post is irrefutable none the less. Care to dispute THE EPA's claims?

Waiting for someone to give good reason to ban Diesel engines in regards to emissions, oh wait, there are none...

[Mxfrank]

Originally Posted by Father Of Giants

My question is WHY?

Lets break this down with FACTS .Only 28% of the total output of emissions is caused by transportation.
Only 3% of passenger vehicles sold are diesels. Add to that, nitrous oxide only makes 5% of ALL the TOTAL SUM of all emissions. Of that TOTAL SUM of all nitrous oxide, the vast majority of it is SOIL MANAGEMENT, transportation only accounts for a mere 5% of it. Stationary engines another 5%.
Click on nitrous oxide to see the facts.
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/overview-greenhouse-gases


The EPA themselves even stated that Nitrous oxide make up a relatively small percentage of transportation emissions.
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/us-greenhouse-gas-inventory-report-1990-2014

If my math is right, transportation only accounts for .05% ( to 1% if you want to include stationary engines) of the TOTAL Nitrous Oxide output.

Why ban something that's BARELY contributing to the total sum of emissions? What impact will that make? Let me help you out, next to none. Diesels are merely a scapegoat for a political agenda.

Liberals/leftist want to ban something with no good reason why, even when logic/facts topples said reason/issue.

Laughable, Diesels are destroying the United States, but cold hard facts refute such BASELESS claims

Life follows art. Just watched Jean Sheppard's Christmas Story for the umpteenth time. This response reminds me of Ralphie's fantasy when he turns his theme into the teacher. It was beautiful until he gets his actual grade.


Check your math, review your premises, read your own links, and try not to shoot your eye out.

[Father Of Giants]

Originally Posted by Mxfrank

Life follows art. Just watched Jean Sheppard's Christmas Story for the umpteenth time. This response reminds me of Ralphie's fantasy when he turns his theme into the teacher. It was beautiful until he gets his actual grade.


Check your math, review your premises, read your own links, and try not to shoot your eye out.

Until someone proves otherwise I won't budge an inch.

[martureo]

Originally Posted by Father Of Giants

My question is WHY?

Lets break this down with FACTS .Only 28% of the total output of emissions is caused by transportation.
Only 3% of passenger vehicles sold are diesels. Add to that, nitrous oxide only makes 5% of ALL the TOTAL SUM of all emissions. Of that TOTAL SUM of all nitrous oxide, the vast majority of it is SOIL MANAGEMENT, transportation only accounts for a mere 5% of it. Stationary engines another 5%.
Click on nitrous oxide to see the facts.
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/overview-greenhouse-gases


The EPA themselves even stated that Nitrous oxide make up a relatively small percentage of transportation emissions.
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/us-greenhouse-gas-inventory-report-1990-2014

If my math is right, transportation only accounts for .05% ( to 1% if you want to include stationary engines) of the TOTAL Nitrous Oxide output.

Why ban something that's BARELY contributing to the total sum of emissions? What impact will that make? Let me help you out, next to none. Diesels are merely a scapegoat for a political agenda.

Liberals/leftist want to ban something with no good reason why, even when logic/facts topples said reason/issue.

Laughable, Diesels are destroying the United States, but cold hard facts refute such BASELESS claims

I don't know if you're trying to miss the point or if you were just oblivious of it. The amount of a gas being released does not always directly correspond to the effect of that gas being released. I could release an amount of two gases resulting in 100 ppm of CO2 (Carbon Dioxide) into a room and 100 ppm of Flourine gas into the same room. One gas would be deadly and the other almost harmless.

As to NOx, the harm these gases is greater per amount than is that caused by CO2. The links to the EPA website you gave makes this pretty clear.

In 2016, nitrous oxide (N2O) accounted for about 6 percent of all U.S. greenhouse gas emissions from human activities. Human activities such as agriculture, fuel combustion, wastewater management, and industrial processes are increasing the amount of N2O in the atmosphere. Nitrous oxide is also naturally present in the atmosphere as part of the Earth's nitrogen cycle, and has a variety of natural sources. Nitrous oxide molecules stay in the atmosphere for an average of 114 years before being removed by a sink or destroyed through chemical reactions. The impact of 1 pound of N2O on warming the atmosphere is almost 300 times that of 1 pound of carbon dioxide.

https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/overview-greenhouse-gases#nitrous-oxide

[Father Of Giants]

Originally Posted by martureo

I don't know if you're trying to miss the point or if you were just oblivious of it. The amount of a gas being released does not always directly correspond to the effect of that gas being released. I could release an amount of two gases resulting in 100 ppm of CO2 (Carbon Dioxide) into a room and 100 ppm of Flourine gas into the same room. One gas would be deadly and the other almost harmless.

As to NOx, the harm these gases is greater per amount than is that caused by CO2. The links to the EPA website you gave makes this pretty clear.

In 2016, nitrous oxide (N2O) accounted for about 6 percent of all U.S. greenhouse gas emissions from human activities. Human activities such as agriculture, fuel combustion, wastewater management, and industrial processes are increasing the amount of N2O in the atmosphere. Nitrous oxide is also naturally present in the atmosphere as part of the Earth's nitrogen cycle, and has a variety of natural sources. Nitrous oxide molecules stay in the atmosphere for an average of 114 years before being removed by a sink or destroyed through chemical reactions. The impact of 1 pound of N2O on warming the atmosphere is almost 300 times that of 1 pound of carbon dioxide.

https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/overview-greenhouse-gases#nitrous-oxide

I stand corrected. However the fact remains diesel engines make up only a tiny 10% of nitrous oxide output.

[ykobayashi]

Originally Posted by Stretch

In the Netherlands I expect they will be forced off the road before 2020.

Lots of them are already banned from entering several large cities.

Whoa. That is unbelievable that they can ban your old car off the road.

I guess I’m spoiled in the US. I feel “outlawed” means no new diesels being sold or harsh regulations limiting numbers which is indeed happening in California.

But taking my car from me...I’m feeling a Charlton Heston moment coming on.

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by ykobayashi

Whoa. That is unbelievable that they can ban your old car off the road.

I guess I’m spoiled in the US. I feel “outlawed” means no new diesels being sold or harsh regulations limiting numbers which is indeed happening in California.

But taking my car from me...I’m feeling a Charlton Heston moment coming on.

Warning:- This thread has the potential of being moved into the off topic area!


Legislation is done differently in different parts of the world.


The way it is working here in Holland is that vehicle number plate recognition software is used to issue fines / taxation charges for drivers who enter into pollution restricted zones in diesel vehicles (whether they knew they should have been there or not). Life is getting to be more and more expensive for owners of diesel engined vehicles. The dutch way seems to be to price people off the road rather than issuing an all out ban. (For now)



At the modern diesels that have been shown to be more polluting than some of the older models are being allowed into the low pollution areas.

[jsp300D]

Originally Posted by Stretch

In the Netherlands I expect they will be forced off the road before 2020.

Lots of them are already banned from entering several large cities.

EU is proposing to end fuel burning cars for sale on 2025 but, they haven't made a dent with EV as all the electric providers are charging for the charger at free choice of price.

As for Diesel. I don't think they will make a EV truck that can do 700mls and charge under 30mins. So Diesel will exist unless they want us starve without food. So long as the Government don't want to support cleaner fuels (biodiesel or algae made diesel) they don't do enough then...... just banning isn't enough then.

They don't see the problem when all these batteries go broken. The waste is much more harmful then petrol or diesel powered cars. And I do see 3-4 year old EVs go to the scrapyard already.......