I've searched on YouTube and whatnot, but it doesn't help because it's either.A: An imaginary circuit that's a light bulb


Or


B: The simplest circuit you can imagine for a car.
I would spend hours upon hours trying to make sense of wiring diagrams from ALLDATADIY to no avail.


Besides going back to community college, where can REALLY I learn this?

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1998 Ford Escort ZX2 5 speed - 279,000 miles My Daily

1992 Mercedes 300D 2.5 202,000 - Pure junk
2000 Mercedes E320 Black - 136,000 miles - Needs repair

Don't forget to grease the screw and threads on the spring compressor.

It depends what you are trying to achieve. If you are trying to understand how relays work for example - and what they are used for - then you need to split down your lust for knowledge into smaller chunks.

If you want an all round introduction then a book on automotive wiring would be a good thing.

If you are wanting to learn something more complicated like Bosch CIS then you need to go for more specialist information sources.

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I don't know if you too experience a panic when you first see a wiring diagram - but - it comes down to immersion and familiarisation: You do get used to it in the end!

One thing that I have done in the past is to put labels on wires to help remember what things are and how they work. This can get a bit cluttered and inconvenient - for new custom made wiring loom I'm making for my Volvo I've bought a Dymo tape printer that makes labels on heat shrink tube. This sure helps me with my wiring diagram anxieties and short term memory problems!

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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Don't mean to be harsh, but being auto technician today is not like be a mechanic of yesterday. Ever year, the cars become more computerized and more complicated and all rely on TRAINED technicians to take care of them. Your best bet is to try and get hooked up with a MAJOR dealership as an apprentice. Some of the companies will provide free training to individuals who show promise in learning the diagnostic programs that are used to repair the newer vehicles.

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96 E300d

I understand this, which is why I'm currently studying Paul Danner's courses through his book and premium channel. If I had a scan tool and scope I'd be outside fiddling with the E320.

Most guys here would just be fine with the book, but if you don't know jack sh** like myself. His premium channels would go over and break down the information for novices.


But are you sure a dealer will take someone with nearly no experience?

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1998 Ford Escort ZX2 5 speed - 279,000 miles My Daily

1992 Mercedes 300D 2.5 202,000 - Pure junk
2000 Mercedes E320 Black - 136,000 miles - Needs repair

Don't forget to grease the screw and threads on the spring compressor.

Have you thought about trying to find one of those old electronics laboratories that Radio Shack and the like used to sell? I'm not sure if anyone makes them anymore. For most vintage stuff, you're going to need to understand switches, relays, potentiometers (fuel gauge) and motors, plus of course how electricity flows.

You might also check out hobbyist electronics, such as https://learn.adafruit.com/ and https://www.sparkfun.com/ - They (and tons of other companies) sell DIY kits that you solder together. Not only will you get an idea of how the electronics work, but you'll also get lots of practice soldering. Get yourself a decent variable temperature soldering iron and solder, some helping hands, and a few kits that seem interesting, and go to town.

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'85 300D - federal spec, built in late 84. 85 300D Complete AC System Rebuild

When doing lots of soldering even if working outside, a disposabler espirator and gloves are recommended right? I'll look at those websites.

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1998 Ford Escort ZX2 5 speed - 279,000 miles My Daily

1992 Mercedes 300D 2.5 202,000 - Pure junk
2000 Mercedes E320 Black - 136,000 miles - Needs repair

Don't forget to grease the screw and threads on the spring compressor.

If you're using lead-free solder, and you should be, I don't think it's a huge deal to worry about a respirator and gloves. If anything, you might want an solder fume extractor fan/filter when working in an enclosed space. Old solder is probably lead-based though.

Even with leaded solder, I think you are fine as long as you wash your hands after you're done, and you know, don't eat anything while you're working. I'm sure there's real safety outlines online, I'm not an expert.

It's worth getting a solder-vacuum, some solder wick (both to remove old solder), some decent helping-hands and a brass-wool sponge to clean your iron tip. I've never liked the actual sponges that most irons come with, though some people are fine with them.

I have an iron that's the equivalent to https://www.sparkfun.com/products/14228 - I picked it up when I started building little robots about a decade ago. It works fine for car use, except that it's obviously pretty bulky, so I tend to try to do all my soldering on the bench whenever possible. https://www.sparkfun.com/products/14456 looks interesting, in fact I might order one to add to my kit.

Edit: Also, for a lot of car stuff, the simplest circuit possible is pretty accurate. A headlight circuit, for instance, is likely just the battery, a fuse, a switch, a relay, and a light bulb. The wiring diagram will have tons of other stuff on that circuit, but it helps to try to focus on only the elements you care about. A slightly more complicated circuit might be your fuel gauge, it's probably a fuse, a potentiometer (variable resistance element), a coil & magnet (to move the gauge) and maybe a separate circuit with a switch and a bulb to act as the low fuel warning. That same sort of circuit would work for a pressure gauge, temperature gauge, etc, with different senders.

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'85 300D - federal spec, built in late 84. 85 300D Complete AC System Rebuild

Thanks, didn't know such quality solder guns where available, soon as I return my taxes. I'll invest in a scope, scan tool and a board.

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1998 Ford Escort ZX2 5 speed - 279,000 miles My Daily

1992 Mercedes 300D 2.5 202,000 - Pure junk
2000 Mercedes E320 Black - 136,000 miles - Needs repair

Don't forget to grease the screw and threads on the spring compressor.

Old timers have a bit of an advantage, because we learned by trial and error without the benefit of online brotherhood, when electronics was simple and components were discrete. When I was a kid, my room was littered with radio chassis in various states of repair.

The problem with a lot of the info on the web is that it's cookbook stuff, like "plug this test gadget in and read the code", and a table of codes. That's not electronics, it's a shortcut for someone who just wants it done. And the same for most of these group grope lists. Someone has some luck resoldering a board, and it becomes religion that the problem is always a bad solder joint.

If you want to be more than the average plugger, learn a little electronics. Start with Ohm's law (if you can remember something as simple as V=IR, then you can solve almost any problem in electronics). Understand the difference between resistance, voltage, and current. Take a basic course so that you know what a resistor is, a capacitor, a relay, a transistor, etc. Get a reference chart of standard schematic symbols. The next time you have a problem, take a copy of the wiring diagram and trace out the circuit in yellow marker. Figure out what each symbol means, and how it goes together. And just a tip...automotive schematics are the worst when it comes to non-standard symbols. And German schematics are the worst automotive schematics, especially Benz schematics. There's often a chart of special symbols in the introductory pages of the manual, but not always.


I've been soldering for sixty years without a mask, which I think would do more to concentrate the problem than to help. Don't stand there and breathe in the fumes, and wash your hands afterwards. How much soldering will you be doing anyway?

I'll be doing light soldering, two meat slicers I own need repair, and to add to that I'm highly considering building an electrical board (again ).

I built one in 11th grade in high school in my automotive tech class, didn't help me because I was clueless on electricity, now I think since I know a little more I can build and learn from it.

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1998 Ford Escort ZX2 5 speed - 279,000 miles My Daily

1992 Mercedes 300D 2.5 202,000 - Pure junk
2000 Mercedes E320 Black - 136,000 miles - Needs repair

Don't forget to grease the screw and threads on the spring compressor.

As an old electronics technician. I have never had issues in general dealing with electronic schematics. This is the formal name used for wiring and electronic layout drawings.

Automotive electrical and now composed of a substantial electronic component as well. Schematics should technically be easier to read.. They just are not in comparison. At least to me.

Some companies descriptions with paid service supply subscriptions. Break them down into a more easily read and understood fashion. You can see this illustrated on some south main street auto repair episodes on his U tube channel for example.

The way this is done is if you have a window wiper system inoperative for example. The schematic they provide on demand only illustrates the total single circuit involved and it is printed out much larger as well. So it is not just you and me that have this widespread issue. That mechanic pays 2-3 thousand a year subscription costs to get various benefits like this not available really for free.

How hard can it be? I have heard the company guy that travels our region dealing with Volkswagon electrical issues has just retired. I did not know he lived in our town. He got called in by dealerships that cannot solve an electrical issue with their products themselves. I want to find who he is and have a talk with him myself.

I have a couple of seemingly very simple issues with my Volkswagon in the electrical area. They would be so simple to rectify in an earlier car I would not need any service information. My gut instinct is there is something more complex involved so I have resisted looking. If I had a schematic I might feel otherwise.

For example the clock goes or remains on standby power normally when the ignition key is turned off. On this car it just resets to 12 oclock. There may be a short in whatever the smallest seven amp fuse services. Because it blows out periodically Could be the cars security system or quite easily something else I am not currently aware of. It does not effect the radio retaining the pre set memory positions. So without more service information I am not going to dig in and may never bother.

This car is 13 years old and newer can be much worse electrically/electronically. I also have an intermittent trunk remote release. This is potentially in the door wiring harness. A known common issue on these cars. Other than that the car is great. So I might let sleeping dogs lie. Or I might source a wiring diagram and perhaps have a quick talk with this cars brand retired electrical expert. Depending on what I find in the schematic.

I have yet to run a major maintenance routine on it yet either. At the cars age I want to do it. Based on the car is in general in exceptional condition for its age. It is fast enough for an old goat like me. Plus the diesel gives good milage with diesel fuel seldom less than 5.00 an American gallon here in Canada.

When I was young it was felt if one was not that intellectual gifted get a trade. Where today many trades are far from being as simple as they once were. Certain components of trades are simpler today. Yet in general they are now much harder. This does not mean give up.

My point is you need access to what the working guys in the trade have. Plus there are books describing the complete electrical system components. I even have one for general referance. It is about an inch and a half thick.

I am once again suggesting you watch some episodes of south main auto on U tube. In general I repair almost everything we own. In a way a lifetime habit fortunately and unfortunately. I will never stop until I have to.

Even household appliances are becoming harder plus with more complexity comes a higher probability of issues arising. For example the wife has fallen in love with her newest dishwasher. I know it cleans far better than any of our past ones. At the same time just how long till issues arrive with the electronics it has. Is any ones guess.

I am still exposed to what it takes today. My brother in law does a lot of work on cars all the time. Yet is often asking me about issues some of them have. Most times I can help yet often I can no longer. You are aware that today you need certain service information to establish just where a certain part is located on a vehicle alone?

Plus there seems little real option to eventually running your own business in this field. You essentially make money by two methods today. Knowledge of things that the majority do not know. Plus managing your financial existence so it also benefits you. When something appears to be a real challenge to an individual. This is one way we learn.

As my grandmother once told me decades ago. You do not make the most money by using your hands. This is probably more true than ever. If it is not difficult you are not learning. Is probably also true.

You do have a really important upside today over things in my time. If you can figure out where to look for what you want. It is usually there. There was nothing in comparison to this in my day. For example have you looked up auto electrical servicing on the net? I have not but that could be a possible place to start. To have a good sense of natural curiosity still drives me to learn. At times it is best to have a person really familiar with a subject to help impress what is needed on us. Basically this has to do with the understanding of concepts. Inter relationships etc.

You want to aquire the simple concepts of circuits first. Plus the simpler understandings of how electricity works plus the simplest of the mathematical formulas relating to the subject. Many science and other books cover this well enough. This too is even on the net.

I have over a period of time been helping a son in law that has entered the refrigeration trade. Understand electrical functions better. He still asks questions on occasion. Yet in general has come a very long way. It seems the more he learns the quicker he absorbs the more complex things.

He has asked me how I know so much about his field while never actually being in it. I assume it is just by knowing and understanding all the science of all the components of the field. Most of the equipment used was also in my possession as there is overlap with a lot of it in other applications.

I even went to work and acquired all the working equipment he would need as well to start with from China. Plus good used sources for a tenth of the current market prices. Why? Because of too much evidence as semi specialized items they seem overpriced otherwise all too often. Especially if acquired from Canadian sources.

Why is a basic understanding of electricity so important? Tesla claimed long ago that the world is based on it or some of the principals that apply to it. . When you consider all things down to an atom level this may even be partially true. Just remember if something is really easy everyone could do it.

A lot of automotive electronics is still power and ground, switched, to achieve results. In general, MB switches the ground side of things.

Probably the easiest way to learn much of this, is to make a printed copy of the schematic and use colored pencils to draw the particular circuit. You will quickly learn to take a logical path of thinking, regarding main power, controlled inputs, and grounds.

Like Barry, I'm a seasoned technician with experience on everything from corporate jets & medical monitoring to household appliances. There are some circuits that even seasoned technicians have to dig out the pencil and paper to decipher what is going on.

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Sam

84 300SD 350K+ miles ( Blue Belle )

start at the lowest point of learning. What makes stuff work.

e.g. basic power and ground to switch on a lamp, now add a switch to flick it on and off - now remove the switch and add a relay to that circuit so you can remotely control it from another switch placed where you want. (relay is basically just a remote controlled switch that allows a lower amp circuit drive a higher amp consumable (e.g. condenser fans)

Im sure you will learn a lot just by understanding these concepts, you can now get into solenoids which are nothing more than coils creating magnetic fields to move a metal slug to do something (usually open or close a port).

once you are bored of the above, get into position sensors - two forms are used a lot the variable reluctance sensor and a hall effect sensor, both are used to identify an "event" on a wheel/slide/position of something from a prefabricated tone ring. (crank and ABS sensors on most cars)

get yourself acquianted organically. Its the best way to learn.

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2012 BMW X5 (Beef + Granite suspension model)

1995 E300D - The original humming machine (consumed by Flood 2017)
2000 E320 - The evolution (consumed by flood 2017)

There is a different in reading the schematic and understanding the symbols/components. Reading the schematic is a piece of cake, just follow the lines and the wire color. Understanding the symbols and components is at a higher level. Most modern cars are modulized with no serviceable components inside, they are on a replacement basis, there is nothing to learn, so to speak. If you are talking about the microelectronics with data bus and control lines then it is different ball games.

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Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.

If you think of the electrons like drops of water, the conductors/wiring as as piping, switches like a faucet that might make it easier to visualize the flow of electricity in a simple DC circuit.

If you can find an old Heathkit correspondence course they once had a set of about 10 lessons from DC to Micro-processors. You can Google Forrest Mims for the basic handbooks he once published, if there are any Radio Shacks left you once could have walked in and found that stuff on the shelves.

HeathKit/Zenith

https://www.amazon.com/Electronics-Heathkit-Zenith-Educational-Systems/dp/0871190583