Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-03-2019, 02:25 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 6
IP timing

Hello ,first of all I'm new to this Forum and I have been looking around which site is helpful about om617 Diesel Motor , this is kind of new to me I don't know much about Diesel om617, I bought a 1983-84 Mercedes-Benz Turbo 300D , cd or what ever model is this about 2years now , so anyway I recently remove the IP and send to Bosch for rebuilt , and they did a really good job looks like brand new , but its been frustrating on my part because I did exactly what they told me to do and how to remove and install back into the block , line up the timing to the groove at 24*BTDC I did all that for several times to get the timing correct , I bleed all the lines but its still same results rough idle seems like misfire and lots of white bluewish smokes , and ping weird noise like valve and piston hitting each other , I also adjust the valve clearance and new Monark Nozzles , I'm like giving up already just to get the IP out is pain in the Butt, so I decided to pull the Engine out and do it on the side and get it run right before put it back in , I did some research and said in this particular IP you need to set the IP to 24* BTDC yes I did that but there is another timing in this IP said you need to turn the engine and set the timing to 15*ATDC ,so like what the hell now , bad enough where on earth I don't understand I'm lost .. anyway I would like to get to the bottom of this anyone know what or how to set the IP to 15* ATDC? went to far to give up now ..I will post a picture or video how it runs maybe anyone know what the problem is ..


Last edited by Isaac Peter 70; 12-03-2019 at 02:32 AM. Reason: picture
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-03-2019, 02:44 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 2,557
Search for "start of delivery". That should happen at 24 deg BTDC. I set to 27 BTDC in both my 300D's for improved performance & mileage, at the cost of slightly rougher idle, though can't say I noticed anything. Summary, you rotate the IP (at top) towards the engine block to advance timing. I think it would have to be pretty close to the factory setting since the stiff fuel tubes almost enforce that.

You remove the guts from #1 IP delivery valve (don't touch the 2 big nuts at the base which clamp the shim, they adjust fuel flow). As you pump the hand pump, fuel will come out until you rotate the crankshaft to 24 deg BTDC where the inlet port in the IP closes off to halt the pumped fuel flow. That is where "start of delivery" is. If you want to get fussy, you can rig up the little elbow tube shown in the manual and count drops (1 per sec is the spec). A bit unnecessary IMHO.

Did you pop test your new injectors? Should pop at 1950 psig +/-50 psi and give a uniform spray with no streamers, and shouldn't dribble until they pop.
__________________
1984 & 1985 CA 300D's
1964 & 65 Mopar's - Valiant, Dart, Newport
1996 & 2002 Chrysler minivans
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-03-2019, 04:44 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: NE Pennsylvania
Posts: 171
24 deg btdc ON COMPRESSION STROKE (very important) #1 cylinder if you're setting it by the notch on the front of the ip

15 deg atdc if you're doing it by looking through the port on the back side of the ip or using a special locking tool that fits into that port
__________________
1990 300SE (Daily driver)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-03-2019, 11:39 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 6
Thanks Bill , I will try that do that but bear with me I'm little confuse I will set to 27 BTDC how to do that , do I have to remove The IP and set to 27 btdc and then reinstall, rotate the IP towards the engine ?
No I did not test the injector ,I figure its brand new so.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-03-2019, 11:58 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 6
Yes I did that as well several times this lead me to pull the Engine out and do it on the side because I'm tired of pulling out putting the IP back in again and again over and over , but maybe the when Bosch rebuilt my IP it was not set to 15 atdc I have to do it myself when its install I don't know . but sorry cristuna I have to admit I'm not good at this , what you mean looking through the port side of the IP and what is the locking tools can you show me the picture this whole thing ?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-03-2019, 12:02 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,979
Welcome to the site. Lets back up a little first. What symptoms induced you to have the injection pump rebuilt? I doubt you had this done on an engine that was running fine. All or any background information you can provide could help.

At your experience level either loaning or buying the fixture that locks down the tang. In the side of the injection pump should probably be purchased. I doubt it is that expensive. Do not get frustrated amy more than you already are as guys on this site can really help. In other words slow down a little until some things can be established.

As for your first question. You time the injection pump in depending on what system to do it you are using. One crankshaft degree setting is for when the locking tang fixture is used. The other when the drip method is used.

Of extreme importance the can timing marks must be fairly near each other. Or you have to turn the crankshaft 360 degrees or one full turn if they are not. The two lobes on the first cylinders camshaft will be pointing kind of upward not downward. Before really dealing with this the background information of what was going on is important.

It is a shame you have pulled the engine in frustration but understandable. To do away with one concern lets assume the injection pump was rebuilt properly for the time being. The tang you probably will be using is hidden behind a bolt on the side of the injection pump.You can look for a picture in the archives or perhaps a member will post one on your thread.

Last edited by barry12345; 12-03-2019 at 12:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-03-2019, 02:18 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: NE Pennsylvania
Posts: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac Peter 70 View Post
I'm not good at this , what you mean looking through the port side of the IP and what is the locking tools can you show me the picture this whole thing ?

don't worry about the 15 atdc rule because 24 btdc is much easier and doesn't require special tools


just line up the slot at the front with the body of the pump and TAKE OFF THE VALVE COVER AND MAKE SURE BOTH VALVES ON #1 CYLINDER ARE CLOSED.
__________________
1990 300SE (Daily driver)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-03-2019, 02:25 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: NE Pennsylvania
Posts: 171
timing explanation:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpAxhJDrYC4
__________________
1990 300SE (Daily driver)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-03-2019, 02:43 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 6
Thank you barry12345is good to be here I'm working on it , there is nothing wrong with the injection pump its a high mile over 250000, so like I said I don't know much about diesel still learning and figure that its high miles I decided to give the IP a treat . but little I know , don't know what I'm getting into ! secondly when I remove the pump I did not turn over the crank until I got the IP back in from Bosch so when I reinstall nothing is move , IP timing set on the groove like what it was so its like will start no problem but wrong .. . as for the lock down tools for the tang inside the IP which bolt part of the IP the tang hidden , and where to get this tools .
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-03-2019, 02:52 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 6
cristuna , thank you so much I will do that and see what happen seems so easy but only one way to find out , see I'm starting to understand now but I'm still not out of the woods yet ..
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-03-2019, 08:04 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 6
Update to all of you guys that help me and giving me an advise you guys are the Ace, I couldn't done it without all of you who contribute all the info , I was wrong I thought I did right but come to find out I was way off the timing so I have to start over and reset everything up to what it suppose to and put it back together , prime the pump and bleed the IP and Horry !!! She fired at one crank and she runs so smooth like new without any hiccup ..so much easy when the motor is out the engine bay .Yes I came to the right Forum and really appreciate to everyone , thank you thank you , I learn a lot with this build and I love my om617 Turbo Diesel She's got lots of power now thanks to Bosch for installing the Dieselmeken Elements on my Injection Pump....
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-03-2019, 10:32 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: NE Pennsylvania
Posts: 171
good job
__________________
1990 300SE (Daily driver)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-04-2019, 02:17 AM
vwnate1's Avatar
Diesel Dandy
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sunny So. Cal. !
Posts: 4,782
Thumbs up You Did It !

Glad to hear his, it's easy to make a tiny error and not know .

The good folks here will walk you through most any job .

__________________
-Nate
1982 240D creampuff 370,000 miles
1978 300CD back from the dead&1980 300CD ~ SOLD
1984 300CD KEEPER ! 478,XXX miles
1984 Euro 300TD Fully optioned SWMBO's
1974 350SLC 4 speed stickshift SOLD & missed
Krazy Kommie Ural Motos (3)
BMW Moto R60/6 Barn Find, 8,000miles
1959 VW #113 Deuxe Beetle, 36hp engine, stock
Junk, Rust, Arthritis, Crushed Spine,Broken Neck&Back
Memories, Peace Of Mind
facts & reality don't change because you can't handle them
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page