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  #1  
Old 07-07-2021, 12:50 AM
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Are W123 Turbo and Non-Turbo 300TD Wagon Cylinder Heads the Same?

I have a 79 W123 300td non-turbo wagon. At some point a previous owner swapped out the engine with a W123 300d non-turbo sedan engine. I'm not sure what year the replacement sedan engine is but since it's also a non-turbo I would guess it's an 81 or earlier. Of course the SLS has been removed since the sedan engine does not accommodate it. My goal, at some point, is to rebuild the SLS system which leaves me with two choices. I either swap out my sedan engine with the correct non-turbo wagon engine or I swap out the cylinder head from a wagon engine instead of an entire engine swap. My question is....

Does anyone know if I can use a cylinder head from a turbo wagon engine for a non-turbo engine? I found a cylinder head from a turbo wagon locally for a very affordable price but I'm not sure if there is a difference between the turbo and non-turbo cylinder heads. Any thoughts?

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Old 07-07-2021, 02:17 PM
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I am no longer a reliable source on this but I believe the heads are different though interchangeable.
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #3  
Old 07-12-2021, 11:20 AM
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No. The valves, cam and combustion chamber are different.
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Old 07-12-2021, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
I am no longer a reliable source on this but I believe the heads are different though interchangeable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felching View Post
No. The valves, cam and combustion chamber are different.
Thanks for the info. I'm going to have to wait until I find the right one, which will be awhile I'm sure.
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Old 07-12-2021, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbob View Post
I either swap out my sedan engine with the correct non-turbo wagon engine or I swap out the cylinder head from a wagon engine instead of an entire engine swap. My question is....

Does anyone know if I can use a cylinder head from a turbo wagon engine for a non-turbo engine? I found a cylinder head from a turbo wagon locally for a very affordable price but I'm not sure if there is a difference between the turbo and non-turbo cylinder heads. Any thoughts?
For your purposes, the key dimension is the diameter of the intake valves. The exhaust valves are same diameter (34mm) for both the NA & turbo engines, but the intake valves may be larger in the turbo engine. If the intake valves are the same diameter the turbo wagon head can be used by retaining your NA cam, cam stands, and followers.
Edit: A bit of research indicates that the intake valve diameter is the same in both NA & turbo engines: 39.8mm.

Last edited by Frank Reiner; 07-12-2021 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 07-13-2021, 11:21 AM
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Are any of the valves different? ...perhaps sodium filled?
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #7  
Old 07-14-2021, 12:19 PM
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The pre-chamber flame tube is larger in the turbo head.
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Old 07-14-2021, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by hercules View Post
The pre-chamber flame tube is larger in the turbo head.
What aspect, or what dimension of the flame tube is "larger"?
Metrics are definitive.
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  #9  
Old 07-14-2021, 07:54 PM
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300d,300cd,300td, pre-chamber neck diameter 14.0mm bore 7.0mm

turbo head------- 16.0mm bore 8.0mm
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Old 07-14-2021, 08:23 PM
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Might work. Do think you would have loss of performance.
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Old 07-14-2021, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hercules View Post
Might work. Do think you would have loss of performance.
Because...?
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  #12  
Old 07-15-2021, 06:29 PM
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Why does the turbo engine have a different pre-chamber? Different pressures and
volume of air (higher). Heat and pressure will rise faster in pre-chamber because of
the greater volume of air and fuel . Injection pump set to higher value also.
With less air and fuel heat pressures will rise more slowly and now with the larger
pre-chamber volume pressures will be even slower. Loss of performance.
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Old 07-15-2021, 08:03 PM
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The increase in flame tube volume (~.35cc) will result in a decrease of the Compression Ratio (CR) from 21.5:1 to 21.2:1. Will the change in Brake Mean Effective Pressure (BMEP) be measurable, and if so will it be noticeable to a driver?
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  #14  
Old 07-16-2021, 01:33 AM
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Install turbo, increase fuel, will run about the same.
Where does the increase in performance come from on the turbo charged engine?
Why did Mercedes make a change if it did not matter.
Does not the turbo increase pressures does not the increased fuel increase temps/pressures.
I have modified a min. of 80 pre-chambers i know what will happen, loss of performance
Your choice to do what you want.
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  #15  
Old 07-16-2021, 03:19 AM
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Compression ratio is not the subject. Volume is.
With greater volume of air and more fuel, higher temps. more pressure on a 300 turbo The flame
will be restricted by a 7mm flame tube.
Using the turbo head on the 300d ,there is less volume of air and less fuel,lower pressures
the flame will move more slowly with the 8mm flame tube.

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