I wonder if forum folks have noticed that prices for our W123 oil burners are looking shaky. All asset classes suffer in a recession. It's not just equities and Bitcoin and real estate that have dropped. I see a lot of "price reduced" on CL and FB. Just a few years ago you could pick up old 123's for under 3K, even wagons and coupes. I know, I did and then the price seemed to double but now prices seem to be falling at least in my area away from the wealthier coasts. How are prices in your area?

Definitely easing in my area. Still too high for me. I bought my cars for less than $3000 many years ago.

There are a lot of cars listed at high prices in my area that just sit there. Dreamers.

I guess it’s what the market will bear. I’m not sure who is buying at these prices. They may not have thought through what it’ll take to keep the car - like the dabblers in biofuels of years past.

I don’t really care either way. I’m neither buying nor selling. It’s not some kind of investment to me. It’s a hobby.

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79 300TD “Old Smokey” AKA “The Mistake” (SOLD)
82 240D stick shift 335k miles (SOLD)
82 300SD 300k miles
85 300D Turbodiesel 170k miles

Perhaps they were overvalued and the price drop reflects that they are even older now (repair costs are going to be more frequent and higher now), fuel costs are up and due to inflation there is less loose change to buy the.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

They have been overvalued. Places like CL and FB that allow endless free classifieds give people the guts to ask high values. The used car market is overheated, but what amazes me is the usual lies of a rust free, everything works MB diesel that of course will go a million miles and return 40MPG…. Then you see the car and half the systems don’t work and there are rust bubbles.

People ask for no low bidders… they know what they have after all… but apparently they don’t.

There are nice examples out there, and a lot of junk. The junk gets priced to that of the nice examples which makes the market wacky.

I’m looking at a nice low mileage w124, but they want $9k for it. I guess they’ve seen them sitting (and endlessly relished) on eBay for that. I will say that while there are a lot of w124s out there, the number of truly nice, low mileage ones is limited. Fewer than w123/126 IMO. But how much of a premium is that worth even in this market, and especially with $6/gal diesel?

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Current Diesels:
1981 240D (73K)
1982 300CD (169k)
1985 190D (169k)
1991 350SD (113k)
1991 350SD (206k)
1991 300D (228k)
1993 300SD (291k)
1993 300D 2.5T (338k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (442k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (265k)

Past Diesels:
1983 300D (228K)
1985 300D (233K)

Many gas cars are cheaper today to operate. At todays fuel costs so the old diesels are nothing special. Plus the percentage of people that can self repair cars is probably falling off a cliff.

For years now most cars have not been user friendly for dealing with a lot of their issues. Repair places in general cost a lot of money now as well. Junk yard sources for used parts are drying up more all the time as well. So a combination of factors is at work.

As one poster mentioned they are just a hobby to me too.. A good example at a reasonable price is still nice. Yet not that easy to find now. I just got back home from a three hundred mile highway run.

Diesel fuel is 8.47 an American gallon here in eastern Canada. I used a Volkswagen diesel Passat that gives almost twice the fuel milage that a 123 would do. It has to be close to the size of a 123 Mercedes.

Another trip is on for tomorrow as well. That car we keep on a government expense account. We are approaching a dollar a mile on that. The car did not cost a lot. It has paid for itself some time ago. The highway miles are not hurting it. We only use it for highway running. It is now a small profit center. Modern diesels tend to be money pits in primarily city use.

Well really not that small. Depreciation seems to be limited as well. We have used it pretty heavily for the last two years. Their Current market price is almost twice what we paid for it. Drive it in a reasonable fashion and it gives 54 miles per American gallon. About 65 miles on the Canadian gallon.

Even though it is now ten years old and a Volkswagen buyback. There is still a strong warranty that lasts till September more than a year away. Doing the normal maintenance myself is not too bad. You do need Volkswagen dealer level service for the complex stuff. So do not know if we will keep it past the warranty yet.

The blush went flying off that rose some years ago ~ the craigslist flakes and facebok scammers are still trying and always will .

All older vehicles are dropping in value, especially pre war ones as young kids don't like them to drive or ride....

I'm still finding good deals all over Los Angeles but them I like to beat the bushes .

I have no plans to ever buy more motor vehicles, I want to sell most of mine now .

My Sweet won't let me sell the nice 1984 gray market 300TD you alls helped me find some years ago ~ she barely drives anymore and I don't like it (TOO BIG) but she says 'it's MY car ~ you bought it for ME so it stays until I say otherwise !' .

Right now all manner of worthless beat to shyte and no title or stolen small Motocycles are cropping up all over the place with the same old same lies and B.S. due to the price of gasoline .

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-Nate
1982 240D 408,XXX miles
Ignorance is the mother of suspicion and fear is the father

I did then what I knew how to do ~ now that I know better I do better

People may think high gas prices are temporary. Judging by what they are still buying new when they can get them. They may be right but I am less than certain.

This period in time may result in a new era. It may yet take some time till any sense of stability is reached. Currently it is far from present.

You made some excellent points Barry1-5. I have 3 running W123 diesels but they take maintenance. My 2001 MT Corolla has over 300K miles(not Km) and it finally threw a rod at 280K miles. I threw a lower mile junkyard engine in it but it was burning a lot of oil. I did a full rebuild on it over a long weekend. an IN THE CAR rebuild no less ,It was child's play and it runs flawlessly with over 300K and gets 41-45 mpg. Every single component works, no electronic gremlins and parts everywhere. Makes me wonder why I struggle with these old heavy rusty diesel sedans. My wife is German so I have to keep the faith alive I guess.

Hugh :

An in frame is an overhaul not a rebuild .

I used to do those on a regular basis but no one wants to take the time / effort anymore, sad because as you've proven a good well designed and built vehicle should be worth the effort and co$t of long term ownership .

I don't see fuel prices dropping much, we've done this before, the 1%'ers all get richer and who g=cares about the rest of us ? .

My oil stocks are doing very well indeed, my grand kids are going to inherit a bundle with a cash flow .

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-Nate
1982 240D 408,XXX miles
Ignorance is the mother of suspicion and fear is the father

I did then what I knew how to do ~ now that I know better I do better

The Corollas had good and bad years. The wifes 2011 has the one point eight liter engine not an oil burner, The two liter in her cars era was an oil burner. Dealers fixed any that had the issue perhaps even a little beyond the warranty at no cost. They did a little cost savings between your year and hers. The better years are reputed to do four hundred thousand miles. If you change the engine oil every five thousand miles.

There is a Toyota service guy that works at a dealership. Puts up what I call a very informed viewpoint of Toyota vehicles. On utube. He specifically tells viewers what models in each year to avoid. Plus the ones that are pretty much bulletproof. Even goes back to the golden oldies. His viewpoint on automatic transmissions was very interesting. I would be somewhat suprised if the Toyota Corporation is really happy with what he does. What it does indicate is it is pretty safe to buy a used Toyota if you follow his advice and avoid certain years and models. Not that they are junk. Just have issues to different degrees. For example had we purchased the wives 2011 Toyota with the two liter engine. Then available in some of them. It would have blown oil .

He does not say but I think Toyota tried using low tension piston rings for better millage. This did not work out. It is really not expensive to follow his maintenance program either.
I think it does give owners another 100K or more of lifespan on their vehicles. He is pretty insistent that the factory oil change intervals recommended. Are not frequent enough for the car to go the distance it can do.

He does not mention. The wife's dealership said they do not care what oil she uses in her car. They told her only Toyota oil filters no matter where they are sourced. Some aftermarket ones are breaking up and blocking oil passages. Killing engines during warranty that will not be covered and after. Dealer specific engine oil is not identified on their containers. It is mobil one.

Barry and VW

All your comments are correct in my view..The issue with that vintage of corollas was that it burned oil because of 2 or 4 too tiny oil return holes in the pistons which clogged up with carbon made worse by infrequent oil changes with the wrong oil. On my "overhaul" I mice'd the pistons and cylinders and crank journals which were still in spec. I drilled bigger holes and added 2 more for good measure. New timing chain and reman head and injectors. VW is correct that it was not a rebuild per se because the crank stayed in and no seals or a few other components were replaced but my point is that access was so easy and fast and cheap tat fixing an otherwise well built and designed car made great economic and embedded energy sense. I threw in a new clutch and PP as well. On a lot of vehicles jobs like these are a thrash. On a long trip yesterday I got 43.6 mpg driving 65. Hard to beat. Now back to my 240D and I'll try to figure out why I can't get my shifter to go into reverse!

You are that guy it seems. Older manual transmissions are usually pretty easy. I was thinking but did not mention. The bent linkage rod may have bent the internal shifting fork for that gear. It was too early to mention it in my last post. If you have your old transmission and it comes to it you probably have the needed part. Another thought was the shifting arm may have been pulled past the operational limits. When the rod bent. I think it bolts to the shaft and is not splined. Depending on what was paid for the transmission you might get some money back at the end of this rainbow.

Chances to that gear being damaged seem slight to me. The common failure with these transmissions seems to be worn syncro rings. I have three basically with one in a gas car.

Right now you have it pretty well managed in the world of cars. You are not riding a substantial depreciation wave plus your old 123s are possibly slowly increasing in value.

I did not buy ours with any consideration of that but it has happened even at fair prices today.

I just liked the brand ever since the first fintail. I also thought if for whatever reason as I aged and did not have much money. They could be drivers then. I also watch Canadian government policy. Indicating that changes beyond the normal rates of inflation were more likely to occur than not. Americans have no grounds to complain right now Compared to what most Canadians are dealing with.

Not too likely still as even at eighty next month I am still pretty busy. I find it both enjoyable and relaxing to work on cars. Even a person like me can cope well on the older ones. Although auto mechanics it is not a job I would want for a living.

Arizona is all over the map on prices. I think someone else stated it correctly that there is a lot of used up junk for to high a price.

I own a 240D because I just love driving the car and of course working on it. I am lucky enough not to commute to work any longer or I would not have attempted a work in progress. Also, If I did not have access to forums like this for a brain trust I would have bought a good used Honda.

Excellent all 'round .

I began using fully synthetic oils long ago, I also don't use 40W etc. because you want the oil to get up out of the sump A.S.A.P. upon initial startup .

I can't imagine waiting 5,000 miles to do a HOT L.O.F. .

I remember some chrome aftermarket Harley-Davidson oil filters giving up the ghost and destroying engines but never a Toyota .

The sludge thing confuses me as I see it as bad engineering .

I'm sure many sludge up because they never run the engine long enough to fully warm it up, back when paraffin based oils were the norm I ofen encountered badly gunked up engines, I used synthetic oils to clean them as I drove them -BUT- one must be *very* careful and diligent to not drive one over 100 mile as the sludge often comes loose and can (not will) plug up the oil intake screen in the sump .

This happened to me a while back when I trusted someone else, the poor old '59 got starved for oil and blew a connecting rod right through the case .

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-Nate
1982 240D 408,XXX miles
Ignorance is the mother of suspicion and fear is the father

I did then what I knew how to do ~ now that I know better I do better

Interestingly, the pristine examples don't appear to have softened. Quite the opposite.

The rolling restorations/ project cars have definitely dropped a bit.

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Why I will never do business with "DieselKraut" again

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-benz-used-parts-sale-wanted/378935-why-i-will-never-do-business-dieselkraut-again.html