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  #1  
Old 06-19-2023, 08:10 PM
Diesel911's Avatar
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Long Beach,CA
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No start problem that does not happen often

No start problem that does not happen often.

I got that dreaded click of the solenoid when I turned the Ignition key.

Due to the click not as likely for it to be a neutral safety switch.

This is not a Mercedes. I found out I got one function out of the electric door locks. I tried the headlights and nothing. Indications that the battery is dead. Checking the battery showed good battery voltage.

I hooked up the battery charger a harbor freight one and the needle jumped around from green charged area to the lower green charged area. So it seemed to be charged. But still no go.

This happened to me one time before, but I did not have anything but a voltmeter. But the strong hint was on the battery The sticker on the battery had 5/20 on it. The battery is 13 years old.

What has happened is the plates inside are all used up and there is voltage but not much amperage.

How that was determined the first time it happened was I had gotten a jumper wire to jump from the positive to solenoid terminal and instead of that hot scary spark instead I got a soft small spark. This one is doing the same thing.

I have a battery load tester but use it so seldomly I am not sure where it is. I tool a battery from my other vehicle and put that in and it started fine.

In warm temp places like southern Ca. batteries can last a long time. This one lasted an unusually long time.

For a long time now, I have been using superstar batteries. They seem to hold up better in the face of you say leaving your lights for some extended time. AutoZone batteries don't seem to hold up as well. Also, the superstars of the same capacity are cheaper. Note if you have your veteran's card AutoZone and Orielly's auto parts give you a discount.

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  #2  
Old 06-19-2023, 09:35 PM
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Location: Mount Holly, NC
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If the starter clicks but won't crank, try turning on the headlights.
If they are dim, and go out when cranking, yup, battery...
If they remain bright when click, then it's the starter...

SOMETIMES a bad starter can cause the lights to dim, when the windings are damaged...

Also, a starter that repeatedly clicks is a weak battery...
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  #3  
Old 06-19-2023, 10:02 PM
Diesel911's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstech View Post
If the starter clicks but won't crank, try turning on the headlights.
If they are dim, and go out when cranking, yup, battery...
If they remain bright when click, then it's the starter...

SOMETIMES a bad starter can cause the lights to dim, when the windings are damaged...

Also, a starter that repeatedly clicks is a weak battery...
My case was not the typical issue.

In my case what I had to find out is if the battery if the battery could be charged and if it did get charged if it had enough umph to start.

What I found out was it was not accepting a normal charge. Likely because the newer style battery charger was detecting the voltage and that was telling the charger that it was charged. A battery being charged and having the amperage to start is a different thing.

Not sure on new batteries but in the old days the batteries amperage was determined by the surface area (number of) plates and if the surface aera was still good. In my case I am betting after 13 years the plates in the battery so shot there is only enough working areas to produce a soft weak spark when I short the battery terminals with a wire. (Another way it can happen is if the plates lose their connections and are no longer connected inside of the batter.)

How to do that without much equipment is what I was trying to show and also how the battery having a normal voltage can be deceptive.

I am not familiar with the other thing that kills batteries which is a buildup of crap on the bottom of the battery that shorts/bridges the battery plastes and renders those plates useless. If there is a separatee unique symptom for that I don't know it.
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  #4  
Old 06-20-2023, 08:00 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Texas USA
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big wire from the negative battery post to the engine block / vehicle frame

make sure both ends have a good clean connection

big wire from the positive battery post to the starter relay / solenoid

make sure both ends have a good clean connection

in either case the battery can have a the voltage and amperage it needs
but if the connection is weak, can result in the condition you are experiencing

there is only two (in most cases) so try them first

visual inspection is not enough, remove / clean / replace
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  #5  
Old 06-20-2023, 10:03 AM
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Location: New Jersey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
My case was not the typical issue.

In my case what I had to find out is if the battery if the battery could be charged and if it did get charged if it had enough umph to start.

What I found out was it was not accepting a normal charge. Likely because the newer style battery charger was detecting the voltage and that was telling the charger that it was charged. A battery being charged and having the amperage to start is a different thing.

Not sure on new batteries but in the old days the batteries amperage was determined by the surface area (number of) plates and if the surface aera was still good. In my case I am betting after 13 years the plates in the battery so shot there is only enough working areas to produce a soft weak spark when I short the battery terminals with a wire. (Another way it can happen is if the plates lose their connections and are no longer connected inside of the batter.)

How to do that without much equipment is what I was trying to show and also how the battery having a normal voltage can be deceptive.

I am not familiar with the other thing that kills batteries which is a buildup of crap on the bottom of the battery that shorts/bridges the battery plastes and renders those plates useless. If there is a separatee unique symptom for that I don't know it.
A battery can show “full voltage” (12.7v after sitting a while after a full charge) and either have issues or no energy behind it (the plate issue you allude to)

Any charger can be “tricked” into thinking that the battery is “full”.

If you had a shorted cell, you would see around 2.1V less than expected when the battery has sat idle for a while. Or lower. Very easy to identify.

Can you report the lowest voltage observed when you try to crank it? And just before? This is the first important diagnosis. The rest is below.

So the primary things to do are as follows:

1) disconnect battery, take voltage, report.
2) attach battery charger. Note current charge rate and time. Monitor to see when it’s done. Report all. (If the charge time is excessively short, that gives you some insights too).
3) using fused 10a leads for meter, attach battery ground via 10A multimeter leads. Measure parasitic current. Report observed current at connection and 10 mins later
4) reconnect battery correctly. Measure voltage, report.
5) crank car, watching voltage while car is started, report lowest observed.

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Current Diesels:
1981 240D (73K)
1982 300CD (169k)
1985 190D (169k)
1991 350SD (116k)
1991 350SD (206k)
1991 300D (228k)
2008 ML320 CDI (199k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (442k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (267k)

Past Diesels:
1983 300D (228K), 1985 300D (233K), 1993 300D 2.5T (338k), 1993 300SD (291k)
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