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  #1  
Old 09-23-2002, 05:24 PM
surfblau's Avatar
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: san francisco - immer kalt, immer windig, I want to move
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is sunroof teleflex cable easy to replace?

I have read several posts and it seems like this is an easy replacement. Pull the old one out and push the new one in, with some amount of force.

I took the liner off the sunroof in my 87 SDL to attempt to fix a sticking of the sunroof during closure (lubing didn't help). I noticed that the bracket with two bolts that mounts the teleflex cable to the cross piece was asymmetrically bent, and the teleflex cable itself had several deformed/missing annular nylon rings.

The cable was also bent where it attached to the bracket.

Anyone have insights to this.

thanks

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  #2  
Old 09-23-2002, 07:35 PM
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surfblau,

I have done this with my son on the 190E 2.3-16, which has the regular retracting only sunroof, no tilting feature. On that sunroof design I can say without hesitation the job is easy. You need a new sheet metal clip to fasten the cable to sunroof actuator cross beam, and you have to bend it yourself as it comes flat. It is less than a dollar so buy two just in case (kidding as it was easy). The old cable comes out pretty far with the motor then you pull it the rest of the way out. The new one is not hard to push back in, and once you get it to engage the thread, I used the hand actuator in the trunk with my son pushing the cable into the drive mechanism. Once it threads in, you can run it with the motor. Put the new clip on, jog the motor to get the bolt holes to line up and screw the clip back into position. Try the unit a few times to see everything is ok. I had to run the unit all the way open to reset the logic of the position sensors or something as the switch worked backwards for a few tries, then worked fine. There is an old post on this somewhere if you search with more details. Good luck, Jim
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Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
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  #3  
Old 09-23-2002, 08:49 PM
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Location: Evansville, Indiana
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Surblau:

Telemotor cable replacement is in the other posting. However, you need to find out why it was closing hard enough to bend the telemotor cable. I suspect broken lifting angles.

You will need to remove the cover to check them, or you can try to slide the roof with the cable off and lift it with the translation bridge -- the roof will lift as the bridge goes past the fully closed position. What I expect you to find is that one or both of the lifting angles is broken at the pivot, allowing the translation bridge to get sidways and stick. Both were snapped on the 300D when I got it last year, I ended up replacing them, along with some bits that were missing and all the slider pads. You will probably only be out the lifting angles, since no one else has "fixed" yours yet!

Take a look, the search for all the posts I did last year on it -- takes a couple hours to do, but he only difficult part is getting the lid back on correctly. This requires a tool to push the lid up against the front edge of the opening (looks like a pair of vise grips on steriods, hooked into the hole for the mirror). You can improvise, especially if you crank the translation bridge back just a bit. Details if you need them.

Peter
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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #4  
Old 09-23-2002, 09:49 PM
CJ CJ is offline
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Let's hear the details, we might need to do this on Tanks' car.
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  #5  
Old 09-23-2002, 11:11 PM
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Location: Evansville, Indiana
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Ok, here goes (from memory, alas, please forgive oversights and errors...):

To remove sunroof panel: Remove headliner by opening roof and unclipping from front edge (four "christmas tree" clips). Use a putty knife or similar thin tool. Remove the two chome rails -- don't remove the front screw (different that the others, I think slotted) -- it is the height adjustment. Fairly obvious.

Pull headliner out from under lid and up through hole. You will need to guide the teleflex tube off the plastic guide on the headliner. Have a care, the side rails on the liner are very easily bent. It will also "unclip" and fall apart. There is a section the lifts up with the roof, don't snag the little wire springs on anything, or get grease on it.

Once the liner is out, run sunroof closed. If you suspect damage, or the translation bridge is crooked, use the manual nut, not the switch to keep it from getting stuck. Mine was well and truly stuck, had to run the cable back quite a bit to get it to move, and had to wriggle it to get it forward enough for the next step.

With lid closed, or nearly so, undo the four bolts on the sides, and loosen the four at the front. Push the front guide in toward the center as far as you can, the remove the side bolts and lift panel out.

You should now be able to see the lifting angles and translation bridge. The bridge is held on by three or four screws on each side at the rear portion of the lifting angles. Remove screws from angles and cable bracket and remove translation bridge.

Slide the lifting angles back from the stop just a bit, the unhook them from the slides by tilting them up at inner side. If the roof has been dragging badly, expect at least one to have fractured -- the older the car, the more likely this is, the original was pretty flimsy. Usually the roof will work slowly with one broken, then stick completely when the other one goes.

The lifting angle is a pretty large, floppy thing when out. Comes as a complete assembly (except for pads). Cost me about $98 each last year, if one is bad, replace both.

Clean all the crud of the slides, and if the lift angles are OK, clean them too and lube with sliding sunroof paste. Don't use anything else, you will only end up where you are now. 1 lb can is $50, but we can all share, eh? You can usually talk a shop out of enough to do the roof several times for a buck or two.

New lift anges hook back in under the rails. Pay attention to how they came out, I could get them out but not back in, my brother just slipped them right in. You must have them near the stop.

Once the new angles are in, reinstall the translation bridge. Push the angles out against the sides of the rails firmly as you tighten the screws or the assembly will rattle. Reattack the teleflex cable.

Clean the slides and pads on the panel, and lube with sunroof paste.

Run roof closed, either with switch or by hand. Lift angles must be at the stop, not lifted any, but not back (more on this in a bit). Place panel on car, install side screws, and then clamp panel up against the front of the seal with a clamp. The factory method is to remove the rear view mirror and use the special clamp (vise grips with special jaws). If you can improvise, do so. Use firm pressure. Tighten side screws. You will need to loosen them later, so mark position.

Since you don't have the tool, there are two shortcuts. Mark the position of the panel when you take it out, so that if the lift angles are good you can get it back exactly. This will also take care of the rear height adjustment. If the angles are bad, this won't help any. What I did was to move the translation bridge back about 1/16" or a litttle more, then pull the panel toward the front seal by hand. May take more than one try, but I think you can "cheat" it into place fairly easily.

Open roof, install chrome rails, and set height. The front should be OK, but the rear will be off. With roof closed and not lifted, loosen side screws and adjust panel to get a little less than 1 mm projection of panel above roof level. Front should be within 1 mm of the roof level, but below, not above. Adjust front height with the slotted screws under the chrome rails -- if you need to adjust, you have to loosen all the crosshead screws first, then re-tirghten.

Operate roof a couple times to check adjustment.

If the roof doesn't stop in the correct position, you will need to adjust the motor in the trunk.

You will need a 3 mm allen key (or other 3mm wire). Close roof. Pull white knob out and try to fit wire through the hole next to it (about 8 o'clock, I think). Turn knob until wire fits, then check on the roof rails (headliner out) to see that the index mark on the lifting angles is between the two marks on the rail. If not, remove allen key, set the mark on the angle between the marks on the rail (they may be opposite), then turn knob to allow you to insert the allen key in the hole. Push knob all the way back in.

This should set motor to run the roof closed using the switch back and forth -- full open is an overrunning clutch, full closed is a microswitch in the motor (that you just set). Full open lift is an overruuning clutch.

Operate roof through open, close, tilt, close cycle several times. If you don't have the panel far enough forward, it will bind on the rear edge on closing/tilting. When you get it working correctly, check fit, adjust as necessary.

Not too bad a repair. Mine doesn't work quite right yet, but I've had a sunroof since 1979 and only opened it once or twice -- hate getting sunburns on the top of my (bald) head!

Peter
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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
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  #6  
Old 09-24-2002, 12:55 PM
surfblau's Avatar
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wow, thanks for the detailed write-up

I did some more inspection on mine last night before the previous post came out.

It looks like the problem with mine is currently only that the teleflex cable goes just barely too far forward out of the guide tube and then buckles and gets stuck- this happens only when lifting/tilting the sunroof.

Is there a way to adjust or limit the forward travel of the teleflex cable in the tilting position?

Can the white knob in the trunk do that without changing the stop point for closing the roof?

Should I try to pull the guide tube forward 1/4 inch or so?

any ideas?


alec
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  #7  
Old 09-24-2002, 08:00 PM
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Alec:

The knob on the motor sets the closed position both ways (for tilt and for slide). The friction clutch in the motor should stop the roof sliding back and tilting up. Your motor may be sticking, or the bridge is loose on one end.

You will have to look at the sides (not where the brigde attaches, but at the pivots) to see if the lifting angles are good. The part on the bridge stays there, they break at the "swivel" in about the center of the roof panel front to rear.

You also need to lubricate the whole deal with sunroof paste. Clean anything else in there out, it will only cause trouble.

Peter
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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #8  
Old 09-25-2002, 09:35 AM
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psfred

Impressive instructional post, If you are not a technical writer you should be.
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  #9  
Old 09-25-2002, 01:48 PM
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Has anyone got partnumber for the x-mas tree clips. Somebody has already been plugging/unplugging them so I need new ones.

Thanks you guys, and this post kick a$$!
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  #10  
Old 09-25-2002, 03:57 PM
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Psfred;

Very well written post on doing the sunroof rebuild! I recently did this on my mother-in-law's '86 300SDL. Never a fun job, but good and straightforward. One thing I might add is that it is VERY hard to tell whether or not the bridge is deformed and so I always suggest replacing the bridge, even if it "looks" ok. Along with that, you'll need that new style butterfly clip which will hold the new cable to the bridge. So for all of you doing this out there, I would positively recommend a new bridge piece. The actual chrome rails can be left alone, although they are usually included in the "bundle" of parts that the Mercedes EPC shows when your parts man looks it up.
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  #11  
Old 09-26-2002, 08:44 AM
Admiral-Third World Fleet
 
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Location: Central FL
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Can anyone offer any advice on what to lube the teleflex cable with? I have the MB lube which I have used on the sunroof guides and tracks, but is this the right stuff for the cable as well?
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  #12  
Old 09-27-2002, 07:37 AM
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I got the kit from the guy out west on E-Bay that included the sunroof grease, what appeared to be standard bearing type grease, a brush and wire to clean the tube, and a great set of instructions (most needed). The regular grease was used on the cable, which was easy to take out and replace. Sunroof works like a new one now in my 85 300D.
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  #13  
Old 10-07-2002, 05:34 PM
RockyS
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Question on the clutch, where is it and is it adjustable?
My roof worked fine, now it opens great but only moves 1/2 inch each time I hit the switch to close it, if I hold the switch in I can hear the motor running and I assume the clutch is slipping, I have to hit the switch 20-30 times to close the roof 1/2 inch at a time.
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  #14  
Old 10-07-2002, 06:05 PM
surfblau's Avatar
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Location: san francisco - immer kalt, immer windig, I want to move
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the motor is in the trunk on mine

Somebody might have better instructions, but the motor for the sunroof on my SDL is in the trunk on the drivers side near the auto antenna.

There is a white knob with the words Senken (lower - like sink) and Heben (raise - like heave). I think you pull the white knob and turn the way that you want.

Maybe I will finally get the chance to work on mine this week. My wife is bringing the parts fresh from Germany.

later
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  #15  
Old 10-07-2002, 08:47 PM
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I think the clutch adjustment is the manual crank bolt -- loosen the locknut and turn the center portion -- but I'm not sure. I'd do a complete lube first -- there are some sunroof lubrication "kits" on ebay right now for either $19.95 or $29.95 -- a good deal compared to buying a whole can of the sunroof paste. Lubing it properly can make an enormous difference in operation.

The white knob is for setting the closed position microswitches, not the slip clutch -- pull out to operate, rotate with sunroof closed properly to allow the insertion of a 3 mm allen key in the hole, then push in. Please remember to remove the allen key before attempting to use the motor to move the sunroof!

Peter

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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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