PIAA SuperWhites proved to be crap in testing - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

gsxr · #1 11-11-2002, 05:57 PM

Hi all,

Check out the great bulb tests at these URL's (one each for H1 and H7 bulbs, plus a separate test):

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/product_test/product_test_story.php?id=10357

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/product_test/product_test_story.php?id=10356

http://www.overboost.com/story.asp?id=102

To me, this was fascinating information. First, all "standard" bulbs are not created equal. I always thought all bulbs of a given wattage just put out "x" amount of light, normally measured in lumens. Well, that's generally true, but the pattern of output varies between bulb mfr's & brands! That was news to me. Also, the formal specifications for each bulb type (H1, H3, H4, etc) have a range - say, 1600 lumens, +/- 15%. Crappy bulbs (like the PIAA) may put out light at the bottom of that range (say, ~1350 lumens) and good bulbs will put out near the max (say, ~1750 lumens). The PIAA SuperWhites not only failed geometrically (output pattern), they drew more than the max allowable current (wattage), AND put out less than the legal limit for it's type (H1)!! Very sad. Also sad was the fact that some otherwise reputable mfr's bulbs were poor performers - notably Hella standard bulbs.

All the tests are for "stock" wattage bulbs. These are the ones you want to use if you lights are stock, or especially if you don't have relays installed. (If you have relays, AND E-code lights, then you can use high-wattage bulbs and get even more output. If you don't, high-wattage units either won't provide much improvment OR will blow fuses / melt connectors.) The "good" bulbs are the Phillips Vision Plus & Osram Silver Stars, which claim "50%" more light, and they really do perform well - at the top of bulb type (Hx) specs in all measurements. A couple of other brands also did very well, but they were oddballs we don't see over here in the States (at least I've never seen, or heard, of them before.) Also of note is that the "blue" bulbs do indeed put out less light than non-"blue" bulbs, regardless of how "white" their output may be. There's more informatin on this phenomenon at http://lighting.mbz.org/

To buy these nifty bulbs, the only sources I've found are either Dan Stern, who you can contact at dan@mbz.org , or you can order them from www.powerbulbs.com (UK based, but they ship worldwide). Otherwise these bulbs are nearly impossible to locate in the USA. They're roughly $30-35 per pair, which isn't all that bad... especially since they put out a ton more light than the PIAA's, at less than half the cost!

For the record, I have Hella E-codes on my 123, and 500E Euro lights on both my 124's. I just installed relays on the one 124 and tried some high-wattage bulbs... and all I can say is, holy crap! It's damn near daylight on high beam with the driving lights on as well! The low beam is not as impressive as high, but still awesome. I highly recommend installing relays - with proper sized cables & fusing - if you have the expertise to do so. It's worth the effort (AFTER installing E-code lights, of course.) My voltage drop was roughly 1.0 volts at the bulb without relays, and dropped to 0.3 and 0.5 volts with relays and heavy cable (measured at the bulb, for low and high beam respectively.)

Just thought I'd share what I learned...

Oh, and a special thanks to Dan Stern for explaining some of the theory behind the operation of the various bulbs!

Regards,

diesel don · #2 11-11-2002, 07:22 PM

Dave:

Thanks for the research as I've been toying with different headlights.
One problem that I have (and I haven't measured to be sure) is that my three- 300's seem to crank out different amounts of light period.
I notice it regardless of what bulbs are in the headlight slots as well as the dash spots. I've done the same treatment of white paint on my dash and yet all three are distinctively different.
The same goes with the headlights to the point that I wonder if my '84 just does not yield the same output???
I bought Hella H-4's for the '84 and although the car is much improved, those headlights still yield less night vision than my '85 which has sealed beam headlights. Doesn't matter where they are aimed????

Don

gsxr · #3 11-11-2002, 11:54 PM

Hmmm... that's weird! Do you have E-code Hella H4 lamps, or DOT? That makes a big difference. Assuming you have E-code lights, the next thing to check is voltage at the bulb... it should be within 1 volt of the measured voltage at the battery terminals. Relays will helpa LOT, as mentioned in this tech article (notice the percent light output lost with a tiny voltage drop) :

http://lighting.mbz.org/tech/relays/

About the dash instrument cluster lighting, well, the design is just poor from the factory. I've been told that cleaning or replacing the dimmer rotary pot will help. You could try 5 watt bulbs (stock is 3w) but beware, they can melt the dash if left on max for very long. Wouldn't hurt to check your alternator output voltage on all 3 cars, maybe clean up the battery terminals & ground points, and perhaps clean & replace all the fuses...

HTH,

samiam4 · #4 11-23-2002, 07:02 PM

So what bulbs are you running Dave????

How many watts? I knew the PIAA's were crap. How about the Bosch stuff? They have 100W yellow bulbs I was thinking on using for my drving lights/fog lights.

Comments?

How many volts are you suppose to have at the bulb?? 12.5v? Just wondering, maybe my adjustable regulator/optima at 14.25 volts gives enough voltage at the bulb.

Michael

E code W123

jcd · #5 11-23-2002, 11:14 PM

I swapped out my sealed beams for E-code Hella H4 lamps and the difference was remarkable, this on my W123.

I also have messed around with dash lights. I replaced the potentiometer, painted the backside of the reflectors, the side that faces the gauges that reflects the light from the "prism's" with flat white paint, and replaced the bulbs with Xenon bulbs. Now my dash lights work 10x better than when before I started.

I can see, I can see.

JCD

jbaj007 · #6 11-24-2002, 03:07 AM

samiam4 (michael),

Where did you get your adjustable voltage regulator, please? Cost? I've found them at Transpo, but assumed that they were wholesale only. There's a guy on the Volvo board who sells them but I want to get at least a lead on another source. Thanks.

#7 11-24-2002, 04:13 AM

any special wiring required for the "e-code" lights or can I just stick 'em in my '81 300TD? I definitely have lousy night vision and would like to remedy this.

gsxr · #8 11-26-2002, 07:38 PM

Hi Michael,

I'm running stock wattage in the car without relays, and really big stuff in the car with relays (130/100w H4 and 100w H3). With no relays, stick with stock wattage bulbs, otherwise you'll stress the wiring harness, headlight switch, and - in the case of the fogs - blow fuses. The ultimate stock wattage H4 bulbs are the Philips Vision Plus, the "+50" bulbs, from Powerbulbs.com.

Most bulbs are designed to run at 13.5v (I believe). Typical older Mercedes alternators (before the mid-90's) put out 13.6v or so, which ends up being 12.x at the bulb connector (at best). So if you can get ~14.2-14.5v with an adjustable regulator - under load - that will help a LOT, especially if you don't install relays. Don't forget to test the regulator setting when stone cold, where it will be the highest! You don't want to set it hot at ~14.5 and then find out it puts out 15v+ when cold and blows up electronic stuff.

I'm about to attempt an upgrade to a 143A, 1998 S500 alternator, and I'll be doing some before & after testing on voltage drop under load etc & posting the results on the forum.

gsxr · #9 11-26-2002, 07:45 PM

jbaj007 - I bought some from Transpo direct from their US distributor, but they had a minimum order amount - something like $40, so I had to buy 4 (for my VW). They don't offer an adjustable regulator for the 143A unit I got so I'll see what the stock output is on that one if/when I get it installed. They do have them for my stock 70A unit though.

shawnster - No special wiring required. They are a drop-in upgrade. For your car, the best prices I've found are at RallyLights.com . To improve on that further, you can get an adjustable voltage regulator and increase the voltage a bit (from ~13.6 stock to ~14.5), which will help, and/or install relays. A proper relay installation is very time consuming - took me 4-6 hours, including soldering heavy wire to my 500E light connector pin sockets. Relays will allow high-wattage bulbs but with E-codes lights, "+50" bulbs, and an adjustable regulator you may not want to bother!

Regards,

samiam4 · #10 11-26-2002, 10:47 PM

Ok,

First, I know of several dieselers that have called up Transpo and purchased regulators. So, heck, I would say it is possible. Maybe in a couple weeks you can ketch a salesman in a good mood.

Oh, note Joe told me when he knew what he wanted, the salesman was instantly helpful.

Thanks for the advice dave. I wasn't thinking cold vs hot peak voltage. I'll dig out my bosch electonics books and look at charging and temperature curves.

I was plannning on staying close to the edge.. tryign to find a medium between the battery and lights. I understand the Optima's need more than 13.6 volts for proper full charging.

On light bulbs. I had asked MB diegest guys and several thought the 130/100's were overrated because the pattern was not as helpful for the street. So, I'll probably go 100W route with Oshrams aka stu Ritter suggestions. I can get vw relays for $6 each and the Oshrams are $10 and $8 each( I think that's what I remember). So, If I can comeup with 4 relay holders or the nice 4 relay holder from Hella.. I'm set.

Anyway, if you have a fast modem, I suggest you checking out hellausa.com. They have some bulbs which seems like Daniel Stern use to carry, but no longer. Anyway, for foggy areas maybe the yellow H1 bulbs would be better.

Dave why would you want 143A alternator? Seems like a $500 item. I've got a 55A and will digup a 70A out of a VW or Volvo and install the adjustable regulator.

Michael

gsxr · #11 11-27-2002, 12:02 AM

Hi Michael,

Yep, Optimas and any other "hybrid" battery types (most maintenance free ones, like Delco Freedom and Die Hard Gold) will require over 14 volts to fully charge. The factory batteries designed for our cars will work with at least 13.6 though, but that's why some people have battery problems when they get a "better" battery and wonder why it's half dead all the time!

As to bulb wattage. The lens pattern is what will make the most difference. Putting high wattage bulbs in a DOT light is a waste. But with a true Euro light, high wattage bulbs WILL put out more light on the road, period. But to use anything over 60 watts WILL require relays. Just don't listen to that drivel from Stu about connecting up high & low beam at the same time - that's dangerous and a great way to blow up your lights. I still recommend looking at PowerBulbs.com for bulb purchases, or contact Dan Stern at lighting.mbz.org.

The 143A alternator is to upgrade the stock 70A unit mostly for a stereo system, but also for the lights. The high-output bulbs with relays will pull 35+ amps on high beam, with the aux driving lights lit. That doesn't leave much for running the rear defrost, blower, electric cooling fans, and other electrical loads. The alternators are available used for $75-$100, but yes, they are $350-$1000 for a rebuilt or new unit. You can find 110-120 pretty easy but the 143-150A ones are more scarce, only used on late models with V8's. It should be a bolt-in with my serpentine belt setup. On your OM617 engines I'm not quite sure what options you have beyond about 70A without some custom fabrication, but if you stick with "normal" bulbs you shouldn't need it anyway!

Regards,

Jim Anderson · #12 11-27-2002, 11:10 AM

I mounted a headlight on the back of VW I had and wired both the hi and lo beams on, it sure was bright. I always wondered about burning it out but it never was on long, and if it did burn out it wouldn't be a problem.

Funny how I never had a car behind me blind me with his beams in that car

gsxr · #13 09-23-2003, 11:30 AM

AutoExpress has new test results up for 2003. Same deal, PIAA is horrendously overpriced & has only mediocre performance, but read for yourself:

Standard bulbs: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/product_test/product_test_story.php?id=39920

Plus 30 bulbs: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/product_test/product_test_story.php?id=39919

Plus 50 bulbs: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/product_test/product_test_story.php?id=39917

Enjoy...