Just got through putting an IP on the daughters 300D. What a pain it is to do anything under the hood of a five cylinder versus the same operation on a four.

It's amazing the difference that one cylinder makes in this chassis. The four cylinder is so accessible and easy to deal with, while the extra cylinder makes the five cylinder a real PITA to deal with. Two different extremes.

The length of the engine makes it a pain to deal with small things like the fan or the starter.

Dealing with the starter is a pain, but it can be dealt with by using some long extensions and universal joint sockets for the rear bolts. On the four cylinder, on the other hand, you simply reach over the top and access the bolts easily. I would hate to see someone drill holes in their floorboards rather than use a few extensions and a flex socket.

My $0.02,

I think what we need is a 123 front clip about 8 inches longer, with all the ac stuff routed to and from the passenger side of the car so it can be unbolted and laid to the side without evacuation... with the radiator and everything else 'pull and plug'.... and quick connect oil lines.... same with radiator hoses....We could really change the fun quotient on the 5 cylinders...

This is the reason why I want a 240D, because it is becoming a pain to fix stuff on my 300CD. I want to pull my starter and get it tested sometime, but it's such a pain that I am going to put it off for a while longer. I also hate dealing with the fan, when I replaced the water pump a few weeks ago, I had real fun. Now if they made a 240CD, that would be one neat car.

I take this means you won't be considering one of the six cylinders?

It's called a 126

Sixto
91 300SE
87 300SDL
83 300SD

Larry:

Try going from a domestic to a MB 5 cylinder. Its all in the attitude. I love my 5's. A couple of things have been a pain, but the fact that you can work on anything and avoid the repair shop is simply amazing. Haven't been to a shop in 22 months!
I did have a 240 for a brief stint. Could have rolled out a sleeping bag and slept in there with all the room. Funny thing was that nothing broke so I never really got to work on it. Another forum member is enjoying it now.

Don

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DAILY DRIVERS:
'84 300DT 298k (Aubrey's)
'99.5 Jetta TDI IV 251k (Julie's)
'97 Jetta TDI 127k (Amber's)
'97 Jetta TDI 186k (Matt's)
'96 Passat TDI 237k (Don's
'84 300D 211k Mint (Arne- Undergoing Greasecar Conversion)

SOLD:
'82 240D 229k (Matt's - Converted-300DT w/ 4 speed

The MB 5-cylinder looks almost as big as the M110 I-6!

Most of my friends think my 300CD has a 6-cyl diesel engine.

The 240D does look a lot easier to work on. I still want one with a 4-speed. Either the 115/123.

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2008 BMW 335i Coupe

They are both the same when it comes to pulling/installing the engine/tranny assembly. The pia part is the a/c compressor and power steering pump. How is that '01 C class to pull/install the engine Larry?

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Jim

Try going from a 115 4 cylinder to a 123 5!!!
I love the 115 for all the simplicity and would really like to get a 300 115 but they seem few and far between.
Is this due to low sales or bad design or what? Seems like I find a lot of 115 240s but no 300s.

I just did my IP yesterday and except for the bracket bolt on the back it was very straightforward to R&R. I also fixed the bracket bolt problem by cutting a large notch in the top of the bracket so that after hanging it on the spring and installing the IP I climbed under the car and with the mount bolt almost screwed all the way out I was able to rotate the bracket onto the bolt and then tighten it up. It was a true PIA but a lot better than pulling the oil filter housing I think.

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'99 S420 - Mommies
'72 280SE 4.5 - looking to breathe life into it
'84 300SD Grey - Sold
'85 300SD Silver - Sold
'78 Ski Nautique

I was thinking similar thoughts. I just changed a set of spark plugs for the first time in 2 1/2 years, on my mom's '94 Pontiac V-6 front-wheel-drive sedan. IMHO it's really sad when you have to undo two engine mounts and take a crowbar to heave the engine towards the front of the car so that you can get to the 3 "rear" spark plugs!! And yes, this is how it's supposed to be done...specifically outlines the procedure on how to do this in the Chilton's manual.

Car actually runs halfway decent now, though I know she doesn't want a W123, so I'm trying to talk her into trading her car in for a Jetta TDi...

I beg to differ about a five cylinder being as easy to remove and replace as a four. I will qualify, however that the four that I have pulled a few times is a manual transmission car.

The five is SIGNIFICANTLY bigger job. I pulled my four cylinder just to replace the clutch. I pulled it, changed the clutch, put it back in and drove it away in a touch over five hours. I think just pulling the five would take not much less than that. Again the stupid automatic transmission is a little bit of the five cylinder hassle.

Yes, there are some domestic cars that are a challenge. I've done various things on domestic cars but most of it some years back.

As far as the 203 car goes, my brother in law the MB tech said that R&R the engine is not that bad.

My ORIGINAL comparison in the thread, however, was comparing the four to the five in the same chassis, not the 123 to any other car.

Thanks for the replies, I enjoyed them. I'm sure everyone can tell how much I love the simplicity of the four cylinder. The response about the four never giving trouble is also part of it. My 124 car now has 242,000 miles and has given more trouble than my 240D did in a half million.

Have a great day,

Stop your whining, Larry. I have had many 4 cylinders and think they are great economy cars on flat land like where you live, but if you want to go somewhere in a hurry you just put your foot into that turbo powered 5 cylinder. I live about 50 miles N.E of SAn Francisco and sometimes I like to go to a little place called Reno, Nevada. I'd never make it through Donner's Pass with a 240D. I'd probably get trapped in the snow like the Donner party did. Probably the only thing slower was that 56 180D I had in the 70s. It took 5 miles to get it to 50mph, and if you hit a slight incline, you were back down to 35. So you see, Larry, if you want the power you've got to pay the price. Try working on a Firebird or Camaro from the 90's vintage.I don't understand why they had to stuff the engine up under the dash when there is clearly 2 feet of empty space between the fan and the radiator.

Awaiting your answer,
Peter

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I would have to agree with Larry on the matter of the four cylinder 123 with the stick shift. I drove one and compared it to my 123 non turbo with auto. The auto 5 cyl is no faster.
Have pulled the engine on a 123 non turbo (parts car, still sitting in my garage) and have R & R the turbo engine in the 126 I have twice. That is no picnic. Even after going through the procedure the second time it still took at least two straight days of torture to get it up and running again. Just a lot of bolts and no access to so many.
Still love them both though. But when faced with major work I might long for something a bit simpler.

autozen,

As far as the Camaro's engine placement goes, think about it! These cars have pretty good power. If the engine were any further forward, the car would be so nose heavy, you couldn't give it more than a 1/4 throttle when pulling away from the stoplight. Don't get me wrong, I'm not making excuses for them building such a difficult car to work on. I'm only explaining to you the reason for the engine placement since you said you couldn't figure it out.

My Corvette has the same problem, except they managed 50/50 weight distribution making it an extremely forgiving sports car to drive. I expect that the Vette is every bit as difficult to work on as a Camaro, probably MORE difficult. The difference between it and a 123 MB is that there's alot more there when you step on the loud pedal. This makes it worthwhile to hassle with, at least some of the time. It's a PITA to work on as well.

I have said before that I have driven my 240D through one of the hilliest and windingest roads around. This is the old road between Fort Smith and Fayetteville, Arkansas. It required patience, but it did just fine. The only difference between that road and many others is that it is only at about 2,500 feet above sea level. One other thing I might add in all fairness is that I think my Euro 240D may have lower gears than a US model.

All that said, I still wouldn't take two nice 123 five cylinders with automatics over a decent manual transmission 240D. That's just me.

We all have different things we want to see from a car. That's why they make different cars, not everyone can be happy with the same model. If you don't have to do your own work and prefer the extra power, then enjoy the 300D. I can think of many cars that are worse.

As for my whining, I will continue to whine every time I have to put a wrench to a five cylinder 123 car. They are a PITA! But if I want to go climb mountains, I'll be in one of my other cars, one with a gas engine.

Have a great day,

Larry,

You are too much. You know you are a real asset to these forums. Thanks for the lesson on the weight ratio thing. I hadn't thought of that. When I say working on the 5 cylinders is not that bad I must confess my hobby shop is well equipped. I am spoiled with a Nusbaum (German made of course) car hoist,a transmission jack, a tire machine, a Sun wheel balancer, a Bosch injector tester, and other goodies left over from closing my service facility. I do enjoy sharing tips with DIYs and sparing with PEH.

Take care,
Peter

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