Hey guys,

I have been snooping around here for awhile. This is my first post. You might know of me though, as I am the administrator of www.190revolution.net. Go check it out, its an awesome 190E community ... much like mercedesshop. You guys have a great forum here.

Sadly, I will be selling my beutiful white 190 in favor of a cheaper Mercedes. I am, most certainly, looking for a diesel W123. Due to the abundance of 240Ds in my area (old diesel benzes and volvo wagons come to die in Santa Cruz CA), I will most likely end up in a early 80s 240D with a 4 or 5 speed manual tranny.

So here is my first question: what should I look for when I check out cars? What problems to they often have? Any tell tale signs I should avoid certain W123 240Ds?

I got plans for it. So far, I know that I am going to repaint it myself, remove the bottlecap style rims in favor of the classic hubcap style, slap on some euro-spec lights, tint it real dark, and install a bumping stereo system.

I dont really fit the profile for an older mercedes diesel owner. I am young and enjoy hip hop music. I am not a thug in any respect, but I enjoy to roll low n' slow.

This brings me to my final question ...

I want to install "air bag" suspension on my 240. I am, however, having a hard time finding details about the suspension on the W123. Can somebody give me referals to technical drawings and write ups about the front and rear suspension on this vehicle?

And of course, if you have any advice pertaining directly to air bag suspension systems, please enlighten me.

When all is said and done, I would like to have my car be able to drop from stock height to the ground in a matter of moments. After driving a 190 with VERY stiff tuned suspension, I am willing to sacrafice a bit of comfort to attain infinitly adjustable ride height.

Thanks for reading this monser of a post. I look forward to your replies.

Thanks, Cassidy

Cazzidy. before a thorough test drive look for signs of water leaks; moldy deteriorated carpets and or stains the passenger compartment and trunk. Check the suspension bushings for deterioration. does everything work? There are many posts here about looking for a used 240d, use the search feature. I don't think they pu 5 speeds in any of them (I may be wrong).

Personally, I believe in keeping these old cars as original as possible and would not consider lowering one. Yea maybe it is a little 'stodgy' looking but I get alot of compliments about the condition of my 240 from auto auficinaudos. Some of them refer to the original condition that it is in. I don't try to make the car into something it wasnot meant to be nor would I tarnish the image of it's heritage. Just my opinion.


thebern

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1982 240D 313,000 (4 speed)
1984 300CD 172,483
1985 German Shepherd Dog -Lacey- R.I.P.11/04/05

Hood Stars, Wrist Crowns and Obsession Dobs

If you want to drop the suspension, you might want to consider a 300TD. There is a fellow in England who dropped the suspension on a W123 wagon with air bags. I think it would probally alot easier to do it on a wagon. Try using the search function and see if you can find any more details on how he did it.

Well, I am assuming you want honest opinions on this... so here goes....
If ever there was a bad idea this is it.... LOL
Find a 240 with manual trans... and drive it for several years before you think about this again... a 240 with manual trans is about the perfect car...feels light and peppy with the hyd clutch, etc... you may fall in love with what the factory put out... would be a shame to mess up something as nice as that on a (youngster) whim....
There are other cars which are not nearly as complicated which you can do this to.... find one of them for this project.. and drive your 240 stock so you look smart....and elegant.....

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from the owner of a 1980 240d manual trans, manual windows, manual ac controls, no sunroof.... elegant simplicity.... 28 mpg

I figured these would be the reactions I get.

Well, thanks for the honest opinions. I will search for more tips.

As for airbags, I dont think it tarnishes the image at all. I will not be putting on chrome rims or modifying the body, etc. I just want to be able to lower it. If anything, air bags would be a very nice way of lowering a classic car because it can return to its original ride height at a touch of a button.

I will sit on this idea for awhile longer.

Thanks Everybody!!

A Tech Edit: It is my understanding that the W123 was fitted with coil springs and shocks at all four corners. If this is true, air bags could be installed on this car VERY easily with almost no fabricating. I supose the spring would have a coil cut or replaced with a cut S class spring. The bump stop might be modified slightly. A small bracket for the air bag would be welded to the A-arm and upper perch. The compressor would be electrically driven from a 12V battery in the trunk. It could be put back to stock with little effort...

Did you expect that reaction because deep down you knew this was the truth or because you assume we are a bunch of older stodgy MB owners.... ? LOL
Wait till you get a look at a MB suspension... they are over built in the first place... just getting them set properly is not easy if you follow the book....
But the idea of thinking you can do major modifications which would be ' instantly ' correctable with a touch of a button ????? LOL....

Sorrry, I should clarify. I expected this response because I know how much you guys cherish these classic autos. Adding a little low rider engineering to a Mercedes would be considered blasphemous to many. I respect all of your knowledge and abilities, I dont mean to come off as insulting.

And leathermang... I understand your concern about Mercedes suspension design. But in all honesty, I do not think it is complicated or delicate. Over engineered, yes. On my 190, I was able to replace the shocks/springs/bushings myself with performance parts. I dropped the car an inch and a half. Was it hard? Well, its easier than working on a car with MacPherson struts. And it worked flawlessly.

Placing an airbag between a spring is a very simple procedure that will work as well on a Chevy as it does on a Benz. Nothin changes except the vertical axis along the springs compression path... Think of a bag like an adjustable spring perch.

If it helps, W123 300D sedans were available outside the US with leveling rear suspension. I imagine it's similar to what's in the rear of the W123 wagons and some 126 sedans.

You might look into the hydraulic system on the 450SEL 6.9 since the W123 suspension is similar. It's not an air system as in the W112, W100 and W109. I guess you could look into those systems as well.

Sixto
91 300SE
87 300SDL
83 300SD

"I dropped the car an inch and a half. "

I thought you were talking LOW RIDER stuff.... That should not be a problem.... except seeing it.. because if you drop it an inch and a half from where it ought to be... then you will be the same height as all the cars driving around with 250,000 miles on them which have had nothing done to correct the spring droop...
Changes due to style do not bother me... I do hate for people to lose the safety and longivity which the original design has without due consideration to the costs.... either dollar wise or emergency steering/ object avoidance....

Thanks sixto, I will look at those suspension systems and see if they are applicable to a W123.

I dropped my 190 an inch and a half...

Ideally, I would be able to go considerably lower on a bagged 123. The beauty of bags is the control. With proper tweaking, I should be able to drop the car almost onto the wheels or ride the car higher than stock. I would, normally, ride in a lowered position for around town. When on rough roads, (I live in the mountains) I could raise it up. The six inches of travel offered by the Firestone bags is a lot to play with.

And I have my eye on safety too... if I were to do this I would fabricate a bump stop that would prevent the car from touching the tires. This is important, because if something fails on the highway and your car drops, it is important it will not fall on the wheels. That could be a bad accident.

"Low riding" technology has come a long way in the last twenty years. With the popularity of bagged trucks on the rise, people are constantly advancing the safety and longevity of the system.

Thanks for the feedback, friends!! :p I love this forum! Quite a contrast to the immature folks over at 190Rev.

There are some immature people on this forum, but it looks like the moderators are cracking down hard on them.

Here's a 300D for sale with airbag suspension. I don't like the 290,000 miles though: http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/vdetail.jtmpl?car_id=125812697&dealer_id=&car_year=1984&make=MB&distance=200&max_price=&model=300DT&advcd_on=n&end_year=1987&min_price=&certified=n&address=98802&search_type=used&advanced=n&start_year=1983&color=&cardist=137

I'm young too but I don't really see the point of modifying a 123 diesel. Anyway I look it, it doesn't look right in my view.

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1985 500SEL 124k miles
2001 Honda Civic EX

I can't help it, I gotta post on this. I HATE lowriders. Not the people mind you, just what they do to perfectly good cars. Spent some time in Texas so I've seen a few..... Why on earth would you put 175/80-R13's on a 70's MonteCarlo or a 60's Impala? Those things weigh close to two tons, they can't possibly be safe on such a small tire stretched out on ridiculously wide wire wheels. I guess I just don't get it. I grew up modifying cars to make them perform better, faster, etc. What in Gods-green-earth is the point of modifying a vehicle so it performs worse/poorly/ or is unsafe? And what exactly is the point of hopping a car up an down on hydraulics? But I didn't get Pogo sticks either, I was too busy trying to make my minibike faster. I understand lowering a car to make it handle better or get the right "stance" on a hotrod like a deuce coupe but lowering it to the point where it no longer functions well is just sheer stupidity. But then so is wearing your pants with the waist below your buttcheeks so you can't walk right and it looks like you blasted a load in your shorts, but some people think thats "cool" and the only explanation I have is there must be chemicals in the water today or something. So please, leave the MBs to people who enjoy them/care for them and don't turn one into a rolling retard-mobile. Like the old saying goes: "if it don't go, chrome it" RT

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When all else fails, vote from the rooftops!
84' Mercedes Benz 300D Anthracite/black, 171K
03' Volkswagen Jetta TDI blue/black, 93K
93' Chevrolet C2500HD ExCab 6.5TD, Two-tone blue, 252K

If I had a lot of cash to blow and I wanted to make a really nice 4-door diesel look 'pimp'

I'd probably find a 300D Turbo or 240D 4-speed and paint it all black, put some nice 16" rims, do burlwood all over the interior, leather seats and dash, suede headliner

If I were to do hydraulics, I'd probably do it so I could keep the stock ride height going over crap and lower it a little to make it look sleeker

Anyway, as much as I don't like pimped out 123's, good luck with it and make sure you post pictures of it when you're done! Whatever you decide to do with it.

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2008 BMW 335i Coupe