There's lots of ways to measure reliability. Which one can more reliably protect your life? Which would you choose to run head on into a brick wall at 50mph?

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Had what would have been a fatal accident in my '73 beetle convertible when it was almost new...no engine block under the "hood" to transmit energy, so metal just crumpled and absorbed the impact.

There was a post with pix a week or so back of a guy whose daughter had totalled a 240 and walked away. You'll see this design referred to in the Mercedes sales and tech literature of the time.

They outlawed the Beetle in the US because of the windshield being so close to the driver.

There can be MUCH more preventive maintenance for a car than oil changes. If you ran a Beetle 3,000 miles between oil changes given the oil that we had in those days, you would have gotten lots of practice in such things as how to tuck the rings into the jugs and how to put pushrod tubes in place so that they don't leak and how to get those little rubber gaskets under the stupid oil cooler.

Additional preventive maintenance necessary on a beetle beyond that of a 240D would be: 3,000 mile valve adjustments (if you don't, an exhaust valve will often close up and burn, the exhaust valve heat STRETCHED the exhaust valves. That's why you had to adjust them so often so you could detect stretch. If you let it go too long, the head will break off,) plugs and points (when was the last time you replaced plugs and points on a 240D?) In the heat you best be changing the oil every 1,000 miles!!!!!!! Adjustment and replacement of clutch and throttle cables.

I think that it is quite normal for people to remember the GOOD things about the "Good ol' Days." These cars were NOT long term reliable cars. Anyone who was able to get 200,000 miles out of a Beetle engine was: CONSTANTLY adjusting valves, changing oil, doing ignition tuneups (points and plugs) and they were very dilligent at it. Additionally it would be MANDATORY to be in a mild climate, preferrably not in a hilly area and drive with a light foot if you were to reach such a Mammoth goal.

There was a section of Interstate built in the early seventies with a long hill that was on my daily path. Since Texas is relatively flat, long hills are unusual. I remember a number of times seeing vehicles that gave up while trying to climb that hill at seventy MPH. There were lots of VW Beetles beside the road near the top of that hill. That hill was just the final gallant effort for that valiant little air cooled lawn mower motor.

Have a great day,

the proliferation of low priced Japanese imports, increased emissions control equalling decreased performance, and a very bad rate of exchange between the DM and the $ that made keeping the model alive unprofitable. Starting in '71 the "super beetle" windshields were bowed out perhaps to increase the distance between the driver and the windshield...first time I've heard that argument, btw.

I bought my convertible new in '73, and had it pretty much restored two years ago. Had one engine rebuild at around 100,000 miles, but on a beetle even that is a pretty easy task.

I don't mean to suggest the beetle is anywhere near the equal of my 240D in many areas, especially durability (the MB was a more expensive car by something like a factor of 12). But both were "mature" designs that gave immense value for their price.

It's also a shame that these two designs had to die. One point on which I'm sure we'd agree is that the Rabbit and the 190 were no real replacements for the beetle and the 240D.

As for acceleration, etc....you needed to work with the limitations and the "quirks" of both the 240 and the VW to stay out of trouble. Similar skill set to learning to make a sailboat do what you want it to vs what nature wants it to.

I'm enjoying this discussion. Like comparing/contrasting the attributes of the early Fords vs. 1920s Packards and Lincolns.

Wow, Jim B+, I find it amazing that you kept your convertible all these years. I recall in 1979 when I was living in Phila, the local VW dealer was advertising a white on white convertible in it's last production year. Tempted, but I couldn't afford it at the time. Always wanted a white on white convertible, never bought one.

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Actually, my understanding is the EPA was to blame for ending the bug's life cylce in the US. They had too much hydrocarbon emissions because of it being an air-cooled engine. '79 marked the last year of the bug in the US and that matches up with newly instituted EPA emission requirements and testing timeframe. I had my first bug as a student in college. I've no idea how many miles I put on her before trading it in on a car with AC but, I do know that for $1000, I could overhaul the engine, transmission, brakes, new seats and repaint the car. I've only gotten started with repairs to my MB and I'm half way there. I must admit, though, I would hate to give up my MB as a daily driver though.

Tim

Tim, that's alot miles on your SD, how many have you put on and what repairs/update have you done?

Well, Edge,

I've only put about 10K miles on it myself. I bought it at the beginning of this year. I've spent about $300 in fluid leaks alone. Oil cooling lines, tranmission modulator valve, front wheel bearings, vacuum pump, Turbo return line leaks, vacuum lines out the whaazoo, breather assembly mounts, motor mounts, ACC vacuum elements. I'm still chasing leaks but have got them down to a managable level. When I bought her, she leaked everything except brake fluid and windshield washer fluid. Now I've got it peared down to an oil leak from the oil filter housing and front main seal on the transmission.

Outstanding things that need yet to be done are, replace gasket on above mentioned oil filter housing to block, replace EGR valve, front seal on transmission, flex plates on drive-line, timing chain and tensioner, fix cruise control, ACC controls (mostly defrost air regardless of setting, however heat cylces like it should), brake job, valve adjustment with VC gasket, rubber hose coupling between water pump and thermostat housing, rebuild seats, repair window regulators on both back windows, muffler. That's all that comes to mind immediately. It's enough, though.

Cheers,
Tim

The five cylinder versions of the 123 are NOT the economy cars. There are just too many gadgets and stuff to break on them. Most all these gadgets are EXPENSIVE to repair.

The manual transmission 240D version, on the other hand, is simple, easy to work on, fuel efficient and if well cared for can be run to the half million mile mark.

Even though both of these cars LOOK the same, they are about as different as the 240D and the beetle.

Yes, the parts for Beetles were and ARE cheap. They made MANY more of them than most any MB ever made. There is economy in numbers. It's a good thing that parts are cheap for the Beetle since they are needed so often.

Have a great day,

No the 240D and VW Beetle did NOT pioneer the crumple zones.

The Fintails were the First Production cars ever to have the front and rear crumple zones.
Bela Berenyi (Sp?) was the engineer that conceived it for Mercedes in 1955.
Finbacks were probably The safest cars to have in the early 60's.

Also I seem to remember as a young child riding in the back of moms, (now Mine) 76 300D on the freeways of Los Angeles, seeing VW beetles (not to mention buses) pulled off to the side with the hoods, or side panels or whatever open, white smoke wafting out with sweaty grease covered owners peering inside in disgust.

__________________
63 220S W111
76 300D W115
2013 VW JSW TDI M6

previously-
73 280 SEL 4.5
86 300E 5 speed
2010 VW Jetta TDI M6

I have to agree!

Thank god you swayed me in the direction of the 240D with a 4 spd manual! I learned to drive a manual trans. car, and it saves me and my pop a lot of grief when we have to repair the car. Extremely easy to repair! So easy, I've been replacing random interior parts, power window buttons etc with stuff from scrap cars. Its like getting a new car everytime! Put a little Zymol on thw white paint job, and she shines beautiful. Only about three moderately bad" rust spots on the car, but those will be fixed in the summer.

240D for ever!

Next on list:
Rust repair
Oil Pressure Gauge
Thermostat+ coolant flush.
Oil change this sunday
Interior wood trim replacement
Engine bay repainting: touch up

I saw the new Beetle Convertible in the showroom the other day. The build quality of the body looks excellent. Is that Karmann Coachworks? I'd like to get one used in a few years. Does anyone on this board have one?

"I can't imagine how this question could have ever even entered someones mind" ---Larry Bible
THis was my first thought also....

Having been a VW/KarmanGhia driver for about 15 years I know that what Larry said about Constant maintenance was true.. maybe even an understatement .....

I still own a 1952 MGTD replica ( Fiberfab migi ll ) on a VW chassis...Which I built in 1980....

I don't know about the people up north... but what killed the VW down here was the quality of the Japanese water cooled cars which would run an air conditioner without overheating the engine....

The VW had some major problems when compared to them.....
1. too loud without water around the jugs to quiet them
2. not enough power to run an air conditioner
3. average 6 to 10k on a set of jugs
4. no dependable electronic ignition
5. 200 ft lb single nut holding the flywheel on
5. carb which would start leaking at the throttle valve stem
6. terrible heating system in the winter
7. no screw on oil filter
8. valve covers held on with weakening spring holders (leak)
9. oil pump which had to be pulled from case to replace
10. No oil lubrication on the cam lobes at idle....(Don't Idle !)

Now, the question is how to fix ALL those things.... GET A SUBARU 1800 pushrod engine... The president of VW was hired by Fuji Motor Co ... that is who developed the sube engine....

Now, a VW with a Sube 1800 pushrod ( 81 horsepower ) transplanted into it ... no question it would be fast and much more dependable...

Can you guess what is going into my MGTD replica ? I have three on the property.... and the one with the Weber carb is amazingling fast......

You both are so right, but I never had any trouble on my '74 VW. The new convert is sweet, 'tho.