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  #16  
Old 01-02-2006, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig
Huh?
Blenders and two-tankers alike both burn more petroleum than I do. Additionally, although the evidence is still anecdotal, I believe engine life will be shorter running WVO than with a clean-burning fuel. Sorry to confuse you.

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  #17  
Old 01-02-2006, 01:11 PM
Craig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old300D
Blenders and two-tankers alike both burn more petroleum than I do. Additionally, although the evidence is still anecdotal, I believe engine life will be shorter running WVO than with a clean-burning fuel. Sorry to confuse you.
I'm sure engine life will be shorter running WVO than clean fuel, but I suspect running any significant amount of used motor oil could be even worse for the engine (at least WVO doesn't contain metallic particles). I don't know how much it would take to do significant damage, but I'm not planning on finding out. With regard to the environment, it seems obvious that burning industrial waste in your engine can't be good. In any case, I expect this fad will be "self limiting."
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  #18  
Old 01-02-2006, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig
I'm sure engine life will be shorter running WVO than clean fuel, but I suspect running any significant amount of used motor oil could be even worse for the engine (at least WVO doesn't contain metallic particles). I don't know how much it would take to do significant damage, but I'm not planning on finding out. With regard to the environment, it seems obvious that burning industrial waste in your engine can't be good. In any case, I expect this fad will be "self limiting."
One opinion is as good as another. But as I suspected, there aren't any fact-based answers to the simple questions I posed.
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'83 240D with 617.952 and 2.88
'01 VW Beetle TDI
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD
'89 Toyota 4x4, needs 2L-T
'78 280Z with L28ET - 12.86@110
Oil Burner Kartel #35

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1...oD/bioclip.jpg
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  #19  
Old 01-02-2006, 01:37 PM
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I have to say, that this preoccupation with suspended particals in engine oil is a smoke screen in a high wind......

Okay...you are worried about wear. You think the injection pump will suffer.
Let's remember the time when no oil filters where used...a case in point is the VW air cooled engine, first built before the 2nd WW and had no oil filtration at all...unless you call that tea leaf strainer that's on the pump pick up a filter.

Before you go off on a rant about how your IP is more prone to wear than a VW motor...concider this :

In the years up to 1960 or so, oil was a straight weight and usually 20,30 or 40oil. It was also non-detergent, had no foam inhibitors or anything like the additive package modern multigrade oil have.

In Europe it was then common to run 10,000 miles between oil changes and the VW Bug motor was 6,000 mile oil change. Primarily because it coincided with the factory recommendation of valve gap check at 6,000 miles.

Also concider that spark plugs lasted about 12,000 miles due to the gasoline being leaded. Lots of combustion contaminents....also concider that with all of this, it was normal for a VW motor to last 150,000 miles or better.

The valve gear ( Cam lobe to lifter face. Pushrod to rocker tip.) in any engine is the place where there is the highest interface pressures. Measured at +160,000 psi under some running conditions.

There is no 'rocker type' 'pushrod' interface rubbing or sliding in the inline Bosch IP's.
They are 'roller cam follower' type.

It would be wise though, to incorperate a dual filter assembly prior to the main fuel filter, if running WEO/UEO.

(Break......Local power utility is screwing around with the power here ! So I am uploading before I finish this.)

The point is, that oil from an engine with 20,000 miles or so or oil from a generator is not going to do any more harm to an IP with 200,000 miles on it....
The tight tolerence of 0.0001" or tighter is the plunger/barrel assembly in the IP, but being as it is a piston/sliding action, it is not too prone to wear from fuel contamination if you are careful with the oil you use for fuel.....also, the IP is lubricated with the engine oil in your 240/300D MB diesel motor too. unlike the IP on a 1980 to 1990 or so VW, which is lubricated solely with diesel fuel. Some EO in this VW/Bosch IP would be benificial.

I would have no trouble using 6 gallons of UEO with 1 gallon of gasoline, ( or 6 gallons of diesel ) mix, in a Bosch IP MB of 80's vintage. I would however be using fresh pump fuel diesel in a later Fly By Wire IP systems.

Well, waddoo I know..I've only bin messin' wiv this stuff for 45 years !


.

.
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Last edited by dkveuro; 01-02-2006 at 02:20 PM.
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  #20  
Old 01-02-2006, 02:03 PM
Craig
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I guess I'm missing your point, are you saying that the internals of a Type I VW engine are more sensitive to hard particulate contamination than a MB IP? I would find that very hard to believe, not to mention irrelevant.

I like air cooled VWs (I've had a bug and 2 914s), but no one is going to mistake that engine for a piece of precision machinery. Also, my experience with Type I VWs did not include 150K miles on an (un-rebuilt) engine.

As far as I'm concerned, you guys can do whatever you want to your engines, but please be aware that they are some people who will read these posts and accept your comments at face value.
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  #21  
Old 01-02-2006, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig
I guess I'm missing your point, ............................................................. but please be aware that they are some people who will read these posts and accept your comments at face value.
I guess you should read my post again.

What people do, should be modified by my last two lines in my previous post.



.
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  #22  
Old 01-02-2006, 02:15 PM
Craig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkveuro
What people do, should be modified by my last two lines in my previous post.
Just realize that there are some folks driving 80's vintage diesels who cannot afford to replace their IPs. We should be careful with our advice.
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  #23  
Old 01-02-2006, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig
Just realize that there are some folks driving 80's vintage diesels who cannot afford to replace their IPs. We should be careful with our advice.
My point all along is the engine oil in the fuel is BETTER filtered than the oil that is currently in your crankcase. How is that creating a significant problem?

And I'm ok with increased injector wear, they are easy to service.

If folks read this and come to the conclusion it's ok to run a small amount of well-filtered engine oil in their diesel's fuel, fine! This paranoia about an old 617 with a mechanical Bosch injection pump is strange -- they are one of the longest-lasting durable engines ever made, and it has nothing to do with the lousy 10 micron factory fuel filter.
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'83 240D with 617.952 and 2.88
'01 VW Beetle TDI
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD
'89 Toyota 4x4, needs 2L-T
'78 280Z with L28ET - 12.86@110
Oil Burner Kartel #35

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1...oD/bioclip.jpg
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  #24  
Old 01-02-2006, 04:02 PM
intelligent
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Question

How about just adding a brand new quart of oil in a full tank of petro diesel? Or how about pouring in a whole gallon of brand new never used cooking oil in with a whle tank full of diesel? Would that cooking oil cause smoother running engine with less noise?
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  #25  
Old 01-02-2006, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intelligent
How about just adding a brand new quart of oil in a full tank of petro diesel? Or how about pouring in a whole gallon of brand new never used cooking oil in with a whle tank full of diesel? Would that cooking oil cause smoother running engine with less noise?
Dunno.


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  #26  
Old 01-02-2006, 04:45 PM
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I wish

I wish PP (urine) was combustible
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  #27  
Old 01-02-2006, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intelligent
How about just adding a brand new quart of oil in a full tank of petro diesel? Or how about pouring in a whole gallon of brand new never used cooking oil in with a whle tank full of diesel? Would that cooking oil cause smoother running engine with less noise?
Basically, ummm, no. I have heard of people running 50-100% clean veggie oil, and claiming the engine is quieter (and smells nicer), but one gallon in your tank probably won't do much. Now, I have heard (from the MBCA diesel tech advisor) that a quart of clean 10W-40 dino oil (NOT synthetic) can help burn out carbon deposits on older, crudded-up engines, and make a bit of a difference in that case. But it probably won't do squat on an engine already in good shape.

About the used oil thing, personally I wouldn't mess with it on a newer/nicer car. On an older OM616/617 diesel that you're not terribly worried about, sure, why not - assuming it's filtered well before it goes in the tank. But WEO in my nice OM603? No thank you...

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  #28  
Old 01-02-2006, 06:39 PM
Craig
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I guess my confusion is based on one question, Why? The costs of both fuel and engine oil are negligible compared to the cost of the vehicles and the cost of major engine repairs. Are you really that interested in saving (maybe) a couple of hundred dollars per year? Just because you can do something doesn't always mean you should.

Here's a radical idea, how about using engine oil in the crankcase and fuel oil in the fuel tank?
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  #29  
Old 01-02-2006, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig
Here's a radical idea, how about using engine oil in the crankcase and fuel oil in the fuel tank?
Now that idea nuevo !


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  #30  
Old 01-02-2006, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billrok
If I could figure out a way to filter it, I think I would burn some in my car.
Please don't do that, here's why:

- Waste Vegatable oil comes from plants, which produce O2 as they grow, making carbon neutral as a fuel
- Engine Oil comes from petroleum, so the CO2 byproduct is not offset

- Waste Vegtable oil cannot lubricate your engine
- There is currently no easily available substitute for petroleum lubriation oil, so it should be recycled to minimize the amount of new oil needed from the ground.

Also, metal particles suspended in the oil, from what I've read, can only be eliminated through a centrifuge separation process, and you probably don't want to run them through your engine - much more dangerous than fat!

-Colin

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Last edited by grantdcol; 01-02-2006 at 07:13 PM.
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