How much refrigerant did they "fill" the car with to get the windows to blow out?

Sounds vaguely like the 20/20 (or was it 60 Minutes?) piece on American pickup trucks with side gas tanks, where they videotaped a "crash" the resulted in a massive explosion. Later it was revealed they had to rig an explosive charge to the tank to make it look good, as the normal crash resulted in zero explosion.

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with the use of synthetic oil, Slick 50, and fuel line magnets along with lower head pressures of duracool I can now get almost 150 mpg while doing 110 mph
Yeah Greg it was for home delivery. Last company to do home milk delivery in the state of Ky. 5 years later they stopped home delivery and then 3 years after that sold the property to a drug store chain. However I am only 20 years older than the car I drive.

Leathermang

The reason they did these tests was to discredit hydrocarbons. If you really watched the tests they probably did not tell you how much was pumped into the car and there was probably not anyone there from the actual safety dept. they show these videos at a/c classes sponsored by 4 seasons. I went to one of these meetings, but the owner of the parts house made me promise not to say anything. The video was approximately 30 seconds to one minute long without giving credit to the one who produced it. I haven't seen one in 5 or 6 years. Do you remember the side collision tests on Chevrolet gas tanks that NBC produced. It was a proven fraud. Samee Samee. If you had a fire under the hood the fire would last probably 1 to 2 seconds and that would be the end of it because it wouldn't be hot enough or last long enough to catch anything else on fire. My personal opinion. I have duracool in every vehicle that I own and also in my son's Blaser and his work van. The average vehicle has about 12 oz. in the a/c system. I would be much more concerned about cooking over a backyard grill.

Leathermang,

One could then argue that all refrigerants, including r-134 which is known to burn and is poisonous, should be eliminated because not only would the car be burning, the r-134 would be emitting toxic fumes.

While we're at it, lets ban gasoline powered vehicles because they carry explosive, volitile fuel. We wouldn't want any of those cars getting on the road because of potential rear end collisions spilling 20 or so gallons of gasoline and causing massive fires.

What I'm trying to get across is that nothing is without risk. We don't live in LA LA land where risk is absolute 0. Using Duracool is no more risky than using r-12. BUT R-12 IT IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE AND IS NO LONGER BEING MANUFACTURED. It is only available if you want to pay an inflated price.



Herb
'82 240D
'87 300SDL
'92 300D 2.5 Turbo

Herb - R12 is no longer manufactured in the USA, but R-12 IS available for purchase. I've seen 30lb tanks on eBay go for ~$15/lb. Typical price is $20-$30 per can or pound, which translates into maybe $50-$60 for a complete charge in your car (after fixing leaks & evacuating). Given the labor involved with flushing for a retrofit, and/or the cost of new components, $50 is downright cheap. What part of "penny wise but pound foolish" isn't clear? It's not like R-12 costs $100/lb and the alternatives are free....!

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Dave,

When I first had my car converted to r-134 by an independent Mercedes shop here in Houston, he didn't have any r-12 on stock. He said he doesn't carry it. He did say that if I paid the price, he would get it for me and at the time it was over $100 just to fill my system.

There is a limited supply of r-12 but for how much longer? Who can definitely say that this supply will last for a year, 2 years etc? By then, nobody will stock the stuff because nobody will want to carry it on their inventory and mostly everybody that is driving new cars will be using r-134; who will have the use of r-12 when the system is designed for r-134? Carrying goods that don't sell (r-12) is very costly for any company. If the demand isn't there then nobody will carry the stuff.

I certainly hope that r-12 is available for those that want it.

Herb
'82 240D
'87 300SDL
'92 300D 2.5 Turbo

for new members

HMMMMmmmmm.......

So the "staged" fire that you saw only lasted 2 seconds. It takes much less time for a 500 pound bomb to explode. It's not time that is the issue here, it's heat and energy that is the culprit. If there is enough heat and energy, it matters not how long it takes to expend the energy, the damage can be done in far less than one second.

I continue to be amazed that the cost of R12 drives people to so many off the wall alternatives. Go back and read gsxr's last post. What he says is grounded in reality and practicality.

airfoill,

If the existing supply of R12 is not continually contaminated with duracool, hotshot, freeze 12 and every other snake oil that people can scare folks into buying, our R12 supply will last MANY YEARS. This is because there are zillions of cars requiring R12 hitting the salvage yards every day. This means that the only cars that will be left that require R12 will be the few that will be left in the hands of the enthusiasts such as ourselves.

Have a great day,

R12 is not longer manufactured in the USA but it is still manufactured and sold in countries like say Mexico, which we all know is so far away from planet earth that it does not cause any problems here
It is a total scam that 134a was rammed down our throats in this country. I have seen video of the DOD using r12 sprayed out of what looked like a fire hose to clean wing sections of jet fighters. A one second blast of r12 used this way would have filled 100's if not 1000's of A/C systems. It's all "feel good" politics and nothing else. Same people who forced this on us are the ones who want a zero impact or "no trace" policy on the hiking trails I frequent. I am their worst nightmare when they encounter me on the trail. I like a BIG HOT CAMP FIRE, I will burn anything I find in the area including "gasp" plastics, trash, aluminium cans, etc. Then I will strip naked and stand in the hole I caused in the ozone layer. For some reason I have yet been vaporized!
So I have chosen to break all the laws in Florida and use duracool in my cars. When they come out with a fuel that does not burn I will rethink my use of hydrocarbon gases to keep me cool.

Personally I have 25lbs left in a 30lb tank of R-12, which I expect should keep my cars charged for the next 5-10 years at least. Invest in a tank, gauges, vacuum pump, and learn how to do the work yourself; and you'll still save a TON of money compared to paying AC shops that take advantage of the current "hysteria" surrounding R-12's phase-out and whatnot.

For the record I do agree completely with redfox on the ozone issue, that's a steaming pile of BS fed to us by DuPont, etc so they can force conversions to a crappier, yet more expensive, product. Dumping coolant and oil on the ground (which, sadly, is common and accepted in a lot of places!) does way more environmental damage than releasing refrigerants into the atmostphere ever will. Yet there are no EPA requirements to purchase & reclaim motor oil. Go figure...

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Larry

Have you ever tried duracool ? If youv'e never tried it don't knock it. Rebootit has tried duracool and has tried to give you information that is legitimate, you have tried to put him down at every angle. Personally I don't care if you put me down. I've dealt with mechanics that are certified since I got my certifications 27 years ago. I know the answers to their questions, but does that educate me in all areas. No. I personally don't care if anyone believes me about what I say about 134a, but I do feel that is my responsibility to warn people about the dangers of 134a. Most people do not know that 134a has been used as a propellant in asthma inhalers and is in computer dusters. If you want to promote R12 from now on that is fine with me. When you say that systems were designed for R12 should only use R12 that is kind of like engines that were designed to use mineral oil should not use synthetics. Mechnical systems are designed to use something that is friendly to them. Duracool is friendly to a/c systems. It works great. I've sold more than 2 million dollars worth in the last 8 years. If it didn't work I would have been tarred and feathered by now. If it was dangerous the government would have shut me down by now. They have had plenty of opportunities. If what I have said on this forum is incorrect. Prove it. I've been fighting this battle for so long I've forgotten what it is like to have a normal life. I used to try to convince people of what I was saying, now I don't waste my time. The truth will come out in time. Larry I staged the fire you are talking about just to prove to myself that what I was saying was true. I don't want to cause any harm to anyone. Money or making a living is not a motivator to me. Money comes and goes, but integrity lasts forever if my belief in a loving Creator is true. God makes the best refrigerants.

I think the more simplified point is that DuraCool isn't better than R-12, so why switch to it, as long as you can get R-12 at a decent price?

I'm not saying DuraCool is a bad product, I know lots of folks happy with it, and it probably is a big improvement over R-134a. I still think the bigger issue (which has been largely ignored in this thread) is the OIL. Keep mineral oil in the system and your problems will be drastically fewer. The whole flammability concern, to me, is a joke... who cares? We have a better chance of being hit by lightning than being injured in a refrigent-related fire during a crash! Sheesh.

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gsxr

Have you ever tried durucool? How do you know that R12 is better? Mikey likes it.

Nope... but their websites say it all. Duracool only claims to outperform R-134a, they try as hard as possible to avoid mentioning R-12. There is also minimal technical information on their site, which is annoying. The AutoFrost site specifically states that R-406a "Performs equal to or BETTER THAN R-12." They even warn that marginal cooling systems may have problems with R-406a due to the extra heat dissapated by the condenser.

From my research into alternative refrigerants, R-406a looks to be one of the best (if not THE best) R-12 direct replacements. It still has the issue of fractionating (as does Duracool) and requires a license (which Duracool doesn't). The tradeoff is that you can NOT use this with PAG/POE oils and therefore R-406a won't replace R-134a w/o an oil flush, unless you use their R-134a replacement product (totally different stuff).

But I still use R-12...!

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Ok here we go. About a year ago I went from R134 to DuraCool in the 300D and yes, in my opinion, it did a better job of cooling than the 134. Since that time I picked up a '83 240D that had been converted to R134. To say the least the a/c performed marginally. I converted the 240D back to R12 and it will freeze you out. It is as cold or colder than the Honda CRV which was designed and built to run R134. Over the past couple/few months I have purchased an R12/R134 recovery machine and some R12 (I am 609 certified) and will soon be converting the 300D back to R12. I am hoping to have a cooling system that will perform as well as the 240D. The 300TD has always been R12 and it works great.

I meant to mention that I am considering purchasing an RV that uses Propane for operating the refrigerator/freezer when the generator is not running. Seems to do a good job keeping the beer cold.

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