Good stuff - thanks!!

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I'm rebuilding an A/C off a car that has sat several years. A local shop is rebuilding the A/C hoses and I was going to use R134A with a new compressor/accumulator/condensor, 134 expansion valve and ester oil. If I choose to use 12A which oil is best and do I need to go back to an R12 expansion valve? And how much oil goes in the compressor and how much in the rest of the system? I evacuate the system down to 0.02 in hg (measured on a Heise 12 inch diameter gauge) for 4 hours to remove moisture and check for leaks. Does this sound adequate? No brow beating please.

You may want to call Don Freeman for specific details at Duracool USA regarding Duracool 12a. 800.427.4510. Only used 1- 6oz can of Duracool to bring my system up to cold. (' '
This Kit includes three 6 oz cans and each 6oz is equivalent to 15oz can of 134a and instructions to do it yourself!
Don at Duracool owns a number of Mercedes Benz including the "83 300DT he purchased the day I talked with him. He is friendly, (that's diesel mercedes knowledgeable and friendly)(' ')and willing to give information and talk with you.
The tune up kit includes three cans of Duracool and a charge kit is $39.95 +7.50 SH/H.':
Check his Duracool site. http://www.duracoolusa.com/
I am planning on using the extra cans to convert my 134a systems on my other vehicles to duracool 12a. My Chevy diesel van does not cool very well at all with 134a.
Redfox on this site looks to be a willing source also since he was directly involved in this thread. My first contact was Don

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'96 C220 138,000mi, '95 E300D 239,000 mi., '87 300TD 214,000mi '88 6.2 Turbo Diesel Chevy Conversion Van 253,000 mi.

Damn. This thread should die, but.....
The last poster hinted that he added one can of Duracool to an R12 system to top it off. That's illegal everywhere. If he sells the vehicle, and the buyer takes it to a shop for service, it could pollute hundreds of dollars worth of R12 in the recovery machine. If it only took one can to top the system off, why not use a $25 can of R12?

One of my students came in recently to use our equipment (I teach at a technical college) to recharge his R12 system. He had gone to a local parts store and asked for two cans of R12. The clerk brought out two cans of R12a, checked the student's 609 license, and sold him the refrigerent. No mention at all that it was a hydrocarbon refrigerant, that the system must be empty of R12 before it could be used, that it was specifically prohibited for use in motor vehicles in this state (Arkansas) and seven others at last count, and was legal under EPA rules only as a retrofit for R134a systems in the other states. Somehow that clerk believed that Duracool R12a was a direct drop-in replacement for R12. Couldn't have anything to do with Duracool's deceptive marketing practices, could it? Selling less than a dollar's worth of propane and isobutane for $10? What could the possible incentive be for deceptive marketing practices?

For those who live as far south as I do, and use Duracool, you are in for a real surprise when the temp reaches 105~110 degrees. Duracool will become less effective as a refrigerant at higher ambient temperatures. Even with the system fully serviced and functional. It's physics. Ask your Duracool salesman about it; I'm sure he'll tell you the truth.

I use MSR Isopro backpacker stove fuel to run diagnostics on my R12 A/C systems. It's cheaper than Duracool, more widely available, and is almost exactly the same blend of isobutane (20%) and propane (80%). Once the system is all sorted out and any leaks fixed, I then recharge it with R12. If you fix the leaks, R12 isn't expensive to use. And NOTHING works better in the real world.

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Dale
'67 Volvo 122
'79 Rabbit Diesel
'79 M-B 300TD
'82 M-B 300D
'83 M-B 300CD
'85 M-B 300TD
'86 Isuzu P'up TD
and a couple of Hondas

VeggiePup,

Using the MSR Isopro for leak detection, are you using it with UV Dye for the leak detection? Is there any harm done to the mineral oil that is in the system when using this stuff, or can you simply vent it legally, evacuate and charge with R12.

What does it take in the way of fittings to attach it to your gauges?

Thanks,

Dale,

Thanks for the info... it backs up my suspicions. I have the same questions as Larry, mostly how to connect it to manifold gauges....?



Best regards,

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Veggiepup

It continues to amaze me how many are against Duracool when we just offering an answer to the average persons problems. The multinational companies and our government brought this problem on us. A 12oz can of R12 used to sell for less than $1.00, now it sells for anywhere from $20.00 to $50.00. Where is the money going? We were told that it was the tax than caused the increase in price. There is a $6.25 tax on 16oz of R12, not 12oz. This tax was to build facilities to destoy R12 once it was reclaimed. To this day I do not know where those facilities are. First we were sold reclaimers that sold for several thousand dollars. We wouldn't go for that because we wanted to put the customers R12 back into his system. Then we were sold reclaimers/recyclers at another few thousand. We were told that 134a was enviromentally safe. Then they sold us 134a reclaimers at another few thousand. Why aren't we outraged. If R12 was so bad it should have been taken out of every system immediately and held Dupont responsible for the product and the cost of destoying it, but no we let them give us another product that is potentially 100 times worse. You as a teacher have access to the MSDS on 134a. Are you explaining the dangers of 134a to your students? Duracool is made from instrument grade product which pushes the cost of refining it up. The product you were using from your fuel tank is fuel grade and cheap. The mixture you spoke of has to high a percentage of propane and would raise your high and low pressures in an automotive a/c system.

Veggiepup

I sell to a large corporation in Blytheville AR that has used my product for several years as a replacement for 134a. Larry called me after he had been using it for some time and I asked about the performance of the duracool. He told me the outside temerature was 105 degrees and they were getting 56 degrees vent temps and he was very pleased. This is in very large off road equipment. I'm not as concerned about replacing R12 in vehicles as I am about repacing 134a. I also sell to several customers in NM, AZ and southern CA and have had no complaints that I remember of poor performance in these areas. When I get complaints I respond quickly to find out the problem. It usually turns out to be mechnical, quite often the heater door in the dash.

Sigh..................

That's what we've been trying to tell you. Duracool is a great replacement for R-134a systems. It is not a great replacement for R-12.

And I do agree with Dale about Duracool's misleading marketing, I don't like the "R-12a" name, and I also don't like how their website is one big sales pitch with almost zero techincal information (compared to AutoFrost).

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gsxr

It amazes me how so many people can condemn something they have never tried.

gsxr

When have I ever used R-12a when I am speaking of Duracool 12a? I would like to know which site refers to it as R-12a and I will be in touch with them or the home office about it.

I've never tried jumping off a cliff, but I'm ready to condone it. Standing on solid ground is far preferable for me.

Have a great day,

Actually may convert my one car with R-134a to Duracool. It already has PAG oil and I don't want to mess around with flushing that out. It was like that when I bought it, unfortunately.

But I would still not use it in a mineral oil system (R-12), as there are better choices available (note that I didn't say cheaper!)

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I just read on another forum that 12a is illegal in 17 states plus the District of Columbia. They were talking about something called Red Tek 12a.

Is this the same stuff as Duracool 12a?

Have a great day,