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  #1  
Old 09-06-2003, 10:34 PM
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Question Somewhat off-topic, but does anyone know anything about Detroit 6-71 governors?

Hello! I have a bit of a story here...I posted this in the General Diesel section on TDS, but would like as many opinions as possible.

I'm working with a non-profit youth program that has a 40' former admiral's gig, with a 6-71 (4 valve head, non-turbo) coupled with an Allison tranny (not sure on the model number). Last spring, the boat almost sank, so seawater got into the crankcase and into the tranny. We got the oil/water out, put fresh oil in, and fired off that night to make sure that the engine didn't seize. We only ran it for a little while (basically enough time to get the oil to mix in with any water that might still be left in the crankcase), then shut down, let it sit for a few days, and drained the oil again (real PITA: had to use a handpump for most of it ). This time, the engine oil looked pretty clean, although the tranny oil was milky enough to imply that there was still water in the tranny. We were told at the time to let the crankcase and the tranny sit empty for a while, so we did...until today (a period of maybe 3 months). Today, I changed the filters, got oil (40 weight Delo in both the engine and the tranny; I was told to use that in the engine by someone at a shop, but wasn't sure on the tranny) in both the engine and the tranny, and fired off.

The good news is, she runs. Fired almost right off, as a matter of fact. Engine oil still looks clean and water-free, and engine oil pressure looks happy. Bad news is, there's an idle problem. The engine will fire right off cold or hot, but once she warms up, she starts loping. This actually isn't new; she's been doing this for quite a while. However, it seems to be worse now. Before, at the "low" spot in the loping, she would get to a real low RPM but would continue to run. Now, she's actually dying. Sometimes the governor will catch up in time to keep the engine running, but sometimes she won't, and the engine dies and I have to fire her back up. Once she's revved up above 1000 RPM, the RPM's stay even and happy.

I heard once that this was a governor issue and that we needed a mechanic to come and adjust the governor and the rack. Does this sound right, or is it something we can do ourselves? I don't have any special tools per se, but I'm fairly competent mechanically.

Also, how can I find out what oil's supposed to go into the tranny? I've got the same 40 weight oil in there that's in the engine, but I'm not seeing very much pressure on the trans pressure gauge, and the tranny will shift into reverse, but not into forward. I think the tranny needs to be drained again, but I didn't get a real good look at the fluid (couldn't tell if it was milky or just foamy)...

Any thoughts would be appreciated. I'll see if there's a rating plate on the tranny or not so I can give a model number. Thanks in advance!

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Old 09-06-2003, 11:43 PM
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if its an allison dont use motor oil in it, the trany needs a much lighter oil, with special additives for corrosion, heat, slippage etc. use dextron 3 with mercon to flush it with, then refill using syntech (allisions sythetic) oil.
you must have special timing pins to set the injectors on a detroit, and setting the "bounce" on the rack is a pretty tedious job, even for a mechanic trained and experianced the earlier detroits. (53,71,92) serise etc. if you dont get it right it can run away very easy and destroy the engine.
my recommendation is to have a certified detroit mechanic do the job for you. would be worth a couple hundred dollars to get it done right and with out damage.
good luck
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Old 09-07-2003, 03:23 AM
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Warden,

I was thinking the same thing as Mercedesmatt about putting engine oil in the transmission. You wouldn't do that to your car, would you?

Since you are working with a non-profit youth group, maybe you get a shop to give you a comp job on the engine. There might be a slow day when the shop's techs aren't doing much so it wouldn't cost the shop much to help you. They can write it off on their taxes as a donation to charity. Or maybe a tech would volunteer his time. I wouldn't hurt to try.

P E H

Last edited by P.E.Haiges; 09-07-2003 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 09-07-2003, 12:23 PM
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Warden:

What do you guys do with kids and boats? We have a sailing program in which we train students. Use about 25 boats per year and sail in the North Channel and the Caribbean. We snagged a bunch of protocol from the boy scouts who use boats in their high adventure program.

Don
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Old 09-07-2003, 01:05 PM
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Warden,

I would look up the trans at http://www.allisontransmission.com/product/series/index.jsp

And if I couldn't find it there or couldn't find the number on it to begin with I would contact them and tell them your situation... they would have someone who could tell you where to look for the model number and what and how much fluid to put in it.
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Old 09-07-2003, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by P.E.Haiges
Warden,

I was thinking the same thing as Mercedesmatt about putting engine oil in the transmission. You wouldn't do that to your car, would you?
As mentioned, I'm not sure if the engine oil is the correct oil for the tranny or not. It actually might be. I spoke with a shop (where I confirmed that the 40 weight was the oil to use in the engine) and they told me that it depended on the model. Some Allison marine gearboxes use ATF, while others use engine oil, according to him. mercedesmatt, can you confirm or deny this? Furthermore, people had been putting engine oil in this tranny ever since the boat was acquired by this program, back before I even thought about getting involved with this unit (I started out with a different unit). They could all have been putting the wrong oil in, but I'm not sure either way. I need to get the model number and look further into it.

Quote:
Originally posted by diesel don
What do you guys do with kids and boats?
The program is called Sea Scouting, and is a division of the Boy Scouts of America (which is ironic in a way; other than me, this unit is all-female). We take kids between 13 and 18 and essentially teach them various maritime skills, including sailing, powerboat handling, navigation, engineering, line-handling, etc. We're also a last-ditch USCG auxiliary; some Sea Scout units were actually called in to patrol off the coast of California during World War II. I used to be part of an all-male unit that runs and maintains an 82' former USCG cutter; the unit I'm with now has the admiral's gig (from the U.S.S. Midway) I mentioned earlier.

PEH, I'll give that a try. We might actually have the timing pins...
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Old 09-07-2003, 02:32 PM
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Warden,
PM me with your e-mail and I'll FWD it to a friend that is knowledgeable on most, if not all, DD/Allison issues.

R
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Old 09-07-2003, 03:58 PM
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The 80's and 90's railroad equipment uses detroit from 3-53-6-71.Setting the rack is not near as hard as people make it out. get the right pin and any body who sets the valves on a MB can do a detroit. Make sure your injecters don't leak down first. Then get the plate off of the valve cover and go to detroit and the will sell u the right tool to set the injecter timing with. They sell a kit but you sound like u will only do this on engine. Buy the detroit fiels manual also. About $75 bucks I think. Send a messagae to me and i will make u some copys and send to u if money is tight. I was in the Sea Scouts in Louisville in the 70's.
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Old 09-07-2003, 06:12 PM
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This is a marine tranny right, basically just a forward and reverse with no gears to shift? If I'm guessing this right, that tranny wouldn't have the same hydraulic requirements of the multi cog units on the street, only lube duty. 40wt oil may very well be what it needs.
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Old 09-07-2003, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
The 80's and 90's railroad equipment uses detroit from 3-53-6-71.Setting the rack is not near as hard as people make it out. get the right pin and any body who sets the valves on a MB can do a detroit. Make sure your injecters don't leak down first. Then get the plate off of the valve cover and go to detroit and the will sell u the right tool to set the injecter timing with. They sell a kit but you sound like u will only do this on engine. Buy the detroit fiels manual also. About $75 bucks I think. Send a messagae to me and i will make u some copys and send to u if money is tight. I was in the Sea Scouts in Louisville in the 70's.
We may actually have the correct pin; I'll have to look and find out for sure (although it may be for an old 2 valve 6-71; don't know if there would be a difference). You're right that I only plan to do this on this engine, unless we wind up getting another boat in the distant future... I have a manual, actualy, although I don't know if it covers this or not. I'll have to look into it further (maybe bring it home with me someday).

Quote:
This is a marine tranny right, basically just a forward and reverse with no gears to shift? If I'm guessing this right, that tranny wouldn't have the same hydraulic requirements of the multi cog units on the street, only lube duty. 40wt oil may very well be what it needs.
You're correct on that. I think that, other than hydraulic pressure controlling the shifting from forward to neutral to reverse (there's a valve on top of the tranny, linked by cable to the the shifter/throttle unit by the helm), the only thing the oil does is lubricate parts.

Again, what I was told was that some Allison marine gearboxes use engine oil, while some use ATF. I'm going to research this better as soon as I get a model number for the tranny (IIRC, there's a rating plate that's obscured by rust on the tranny itself)...
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  #11  
Old 09-07-2003, 09:36 PM
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Smile Buffer screw

If the governor is not totally worn out, you could take the roll out of it with the buffer screw. This is on the side of the governor, a 3/8 (takes a 9/16 wrench) nut on a bolt with a 7/16 head. Loosen the nut and screw the bolt in with the engine running until the idle smooths out. Do not increase the idle speed ! When the idle smooths out, bump the throttle and release, the engine should come back to a steady idle.
Seems like everyone is afraid of a Detroit because most have heard that they will "run away". This is why they have an emergency shutdown on the blower housing. Just pull the lever and it will stop.
I have worked on Detroits for 25 years,and have only had a few run away. Usually because of a faulty injector.
Good luck, Jeff

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