Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum > Technical Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-22-2003, 10:01 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 709
Pondering a 98-99 E300 Turbodiesel

Well...I think I have been smitten with the new car bug.....I have driven two E300 Turbodiesels in the last 3 days...one 98 and one 99...both very nice cars and very fast for diesel cars
the 98 is at a MB dealer and the 99 at another dealer...I am really leaning towards the '99....one owner ..two months out of factory warranty and was also a local car serviced by the dealer.

Any words of wisdom on these vehicles?

the one I drove today still had the new car smell in it


and ofcouse this may mean that (for those that are interested) the 1992 300SD will be on the market...and for a word on the SD..(for those that don't know)...it has had over $20,000 worth of warranty work done on it some years ago...and anything that the MB dealer even thought might need replacing ...was replaced including a a new(crated) long block engine at 100K miles...as well as new evap core,bose amp,rebuilt factory 10 disc CD changer...car runs and drives like new and everything works specs

Warren
1992 300SD 169K
Columbus Ohio
Attached Thumbnails
Pondering a 98-99 E300 Turbodiesel-1992-300sd.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-22-2003, 10:56 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: colorado
Posts: 154
E 300D

I had a 98, very impressive car, excellent performance, fun to drive, all things you have already begone to appreciate.

Hear is what I did not like about the car, build quality just not that impressive, cheap looking and feeling materials, cup holders are junk, Bose stereo marginal, transmission thinks for itself, and the seats are not very comfortable, anything over two hours is painful.

All in all not a terrible car, but from a comfort standpoint, I believe you will regret giving up the SD. If you buy one try to find one with ESP and Xeon. both very worthwhile options.

I have had a new 211 series car on order since last July, they now say next April, this is the E320 CDI. The difference in performance between your current car and the 98-99, is just as dramatic as between the 211 vs 210 series car.
Also if you can wait another year or so they plan on bringing the S Class with twin turbo V-8 diesel in. Just a thought.

Ron

1985 300 TDT
1993 300 D
2000 E320 AWD Wagon
2003 E 55 AMG
2005 E320 CDI on order
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-23-2003, 12:14 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 463
on the '99: i dont know, seems 2 months out of warranty is about when these expensive new cars start to crap out, if they ever do. if you really HAVE to give up the '92 for a newer one, id go for the '98, at least its had an extra year to prove itself.

if i were you, id keep the '92. youve already fixed everything that was going to break, youll get another 10-15 years out of it without anything major, plus, you wont get what its worth with all the money you put into it, i dont think.

i know what its like to get antsy for a new car though.
__________________
1991 300 D 2.5 Turbo, 220k
also in the family:
1981 240 D 185k
1991 350 SD 185k
2006 S 500
2005 SLK 350
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-23-2003, 05:32 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 709
Quote:
f i were you, id keep the '92. youve already fixed everything that was going to break, youll get another 10-15 years out of it without anything major, plus, you wont get what its worth with all the money you put into it, i dont think

I was very lucky in that warranty paid about 90% of the repairs on the car...thats one of the reason I keep it.
from a dollars and sense standpoint the car would not have been worth keeping if I had had to foot the repair bills some years ago

as for 10-15 years. we'' ll see about that one...so much on the car that can go wrong...and with natural agin wirinf etc is bound to go....I ha da guy recently tell me that the stereo,CD changer and Bose amp(all factory items) was some of the most complicated systems he had seen

In regard to the E300.....I honestly thought it would be much faster than it was...it was definitely faster than my current vehicle...but I don't think by a huge margin.....two things I did notice though....the '99 car did hardly puff any smoke at cold start-up when under load...and the bose sound system didn't sound nearly as good as the one in my current 140.
the '98 did not have Bose and in my opinion a terrible audio system for a car at that price point...
But I would have to have Bose in whatever I bought...could not stand the standard system
.and yes would love to have ESP and Xenons...but it seems like very few diesels have Xenons...I have seen a few with ESP
I liked the airbags in the headliner on the '99 model also

Warren
1992 300SD 169K
Columbus Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-23-2003, 05:58 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Old Lyme, Connecticut
Posts: 3,596
turnne1,

I am sure you have read the archived posts on these cars. Some are good and some are not. A common complaint is the front seats have weak frames or hinges and will start to click and pop when you accelerate. The cupholders are useless, but I am not a believer in drinking anything and driving so I got mine fixed on warranty and have not openned them up since.

I have had a MAF replaced, and I have also had a Diesel fuel leak on the lines from the tank under the intake manifold. From my perspective the fact that all the stuff you need to get to is under the intake manifold is a maintenance error. I am not too fond of the cosmetic stuff on the valve cover as it hides the little rubber lines from injector to injector and the overall design makes changing them a bigger chore.

I really like the car though, and find the acceleration is much better than my old 1991 350SD. This is mostly due to the fact that the SD was significantly heavier and the new engine also has a little more punch. I like the near 30 mpg too.

I hate to tempt fate, but mine has been a great car. Everything has worked fine for the nearly thirty thousand miles I have owned it. I love the way it always starts on the first crank, the smoothness and lack of Diesel smoking and smells (except when the fuel lines were leaking). My kids gave me some fancy wheels and tires, which really made a difference to the steering and responsiveness of the car. Much better.

So, I think the car is great, but I note there are others who have had a great deal of difficulty with them. I would be inclined to buy from a dealer and get a Starmark warranty. Also, the engine has a warranty against oil related failures until 150,000 miles.

Good luck and Ihope this helped a little. Jim
__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-23-2003, 06:15 PM
The Least of These
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Exton, PA
Posts: 559
I have owned a 96 E300 for about 17K (non-turbo, 4sp trans). Overall the car is a pleasure. However, I will agree that the build quality has declined. Interior materials like dash plastic, wood, center storage bin lid, top ledge material of interior doors, leather, covering over interior door handles, cupholders etc... are all very second rate and have already begun to show significant wear at only 85K. Additionally, chasis rigidity and suspenion tuning are not to my taste.

I understand the electronic trans, from 1998 on, to be problematic. There is no recommended fluid change interval and some feel as though the trans is good for only about 150K.

On my W210 I have needed to only replace the serp belt, tensioner, ball joints and practically every light bulb. Otherwise, all records since new report only normal maintenence and wear item replacement.

If you are willing to put up with the second rate materials, this car carries on the MB diesel tradition of luxury (a little less), dependabilty and economy quite well.
__________________
1996 (W210) E300D 86K - Traded in for a Lexus
1992 (W124) 300D 2.5 Turbo 202K - Sold
1983 (W123) 300D, 146K - Sold
1970 280S, 263K - Sold - Beginning of addiction
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-23-2003, 10:59 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 709
Thanks guys for the input...

A couple of issues I have heard that have me scratching my head....what's the deal with all the bulbs needing to replaced...I have heard more than one complain about that....in the almost 5 years I have owned my SD ...I think 2 bulbs have been replaced

I have also heard about the seat issues....curiously the '99 car I drove had been at the dealer right before the warranty ran out to fix a leaking fuel line issue...another common issue it seems

AND the cupholder was broken...lol

but all in all it drove well and the '99 still had the new car smell

but I did look at the interior and wonder how long it would stand up....I wondered what it would look like when it it had 169K miles(like my current SD)

Warren
1992 300SD 169K
Columbus Ohio
Attached Thumbnails
Pondering a 98-99 E300 Turbodiesel-1992-300sd.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-23-2003, 11:11 PM
ForcedInduction
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally posted by turnne1
but all in all it drove well and the '99 still had the new car smell
Don't forget. That is really a spray, like a perfume. Most dealers have it and use it for exactly the response you have given.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-24-2003, 11:37 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 2,502
DC works very hard to eliminate new car smell - or any other kind- from their products. There was a front page article profiling the process in the Wall Street Journal within the last few years. Europeans apparently don't much care for strong scents in new cars, unlike Americans. The primary source of the smell is outgassing from plastics anyways, the main component of which is formaldehyde. Can't be very good for your liver.

The early cars tended to burn out bulbs. There was some type of issue with the voltage regulator - a Service Information has been issued on it. I never had much problem with my '98 E300; replace two or three bulbs in five years.

I would really recommend you look for a Starmarked car. Some of us - John and myself - have had pretty bad experiences with these. Others - JimS, above - have had pretty reasonable experiences. Still, given the percentage of problem cars in our admittedly small sample, a warranty seems like a good bet.

I found the seat superb. German firm, supportive, and great for the long haul. The entire car is quite a spectacular combination of ride, handling, comfort, performance, and economics. I would never have gotten rid of mine had it spent less time in the shop.

- JimY
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-24-2003, 11:58 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 709
Interesting that you say look for a starmarked car..
the '98 I drove is a starmarked car while the '99 is not

the '98 is 3000 dollars more than the '99 while the '99 has 10K less miles and in my opinion ,a fresher car.

I have not negociated a better deal on either car by the way...but I don't think the MB dealer will be nearly as flexible as the Chevy dealer...besides that the Chevy dealer told me the car had been there for 30 days and most typically dealers of that sort don't let cars go for than 45 days before they wholesale it...where as MB dealers will let cars sit on the lost for months unsold

The '99 is a one owner(two months out of warranty) for sale at a Chevy dealership where it was traded in on suburban

the '98 is at an MB dealer and is a two owner car...sold by that dealership twice


bot cars are identical except the '99 has Bose,which to me is a huge plus.

My question is...how valuable is starmarK?...I feel like the '99 at the Chevy dealer can be had for thousands less than the '98 starmarked car...and I can use some of that to buy a non-MB warranty I think

I have shopped warrantys on these cars in the last couple of days...cost to extend the warranty to 100K(or 3 years) is about $2800.00

I relaize the value of the warranty...considering my current vehicle ,trust me.....but does it have to be the MB warranty?

Warren
1992 300SD 169K
Columbus Ohio

Last edited by turnne1; 11-24-2003 at 01:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-24-2003, 02:35 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Old Lyme, Connecticut
Posts: 3,596
Warren,

I have had a better than what appears to be average relationship with my dealer. As a result, I have had pretty good interpretations of the Starmark warranty rules, especially on the E300D TurboDiesel. In addition, my local dealer does a lot of work with Diesels and maintains a well trained and equipped group of mechanics. So, for me the Starmark warranty is a little better choice than one not associated with the dealership.

I was informed by the dealer service manager that there was a real issue with light bulbs on these cars. Seems they replaced the boards in each lamp assembly to fix it. I have changed nearly all the bulbs in my car and have not had a problem again, yet, with any bulb I have already replaced. I was told when the board is the problem you replace them over and over, within a month or two.

Good luck, and, just because I always do this now when I buy a used car, have the compression checked. These are the cars that MB intended would be given synthetic oil but forgot to say that. My car did not have synthetic oil but it seems to be fine. Jim
__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-24-2003, 03:07 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 709
Thanks Jim,

Interesting that I jst got a call from the car salesman...it seems that they are really willing to deal on this car...

but I keep coming back to(in a certain sense) the car does not have some of the equipment I would like...Xenon lights ,ESP...but for enough money savings I guess I could get over those.

Does anyone think that a $25,000 figure is good for this car?..the salesman threw that out...I almost think I could get it for less than that...the car has 51K on it...2 months out of factory warranty...bought and serviced its whole life at MB of Cincinnati

Blk with blk MB Tex with Bose and 6 disc changer...very clean ..only issues are a broken cupholder and they only have one key(the master one) to the vehicle.


thoughts?

Warren
1992 300SD 169K
Columbus Ohio
Attached Thumbnails
Pondering a 98-99 E300 Turbodiesel-1992-300sd.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-25-2003, 11:03 AM
Rick Miley's Avatar
Spark Free
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,086
Just for the record, I've replaced one tail light in 4 years and 94,000 miles.

I think 25 is about right for that mileage. Start out with less of course, maybe offer 21, but don't be ashamed if you have to pay 25.

There are Xenon kits available, so don't let that put you off of the car. ESP was optional, but ASR was standard and is still very good. So I wouldn't worry about that too much either.

The MB Tex interior on the 99 is not all Tex. The perforated part in the center of the seat is leather, while the bolsters and seat backs are Tex. IMHO, the best possible combination - long wearing tex where you need it and comfy leather where you want it. I think 99 was the only year like that.

If the difference in price between a Starmark and non-Starmark car is $3000, I would get the non-Starmark and buy an aftermarket warranty if possible. You'd be dollars ahead.

Check for cracks in the dashboard around the defroster vents. They're common in the W210 and not necessarily visible from the drivers seat. Look in through the windshield. $1000 to replace the dash, and not covered under Starmark!

A key is a couple hundred bucks, and a cupholder mechanism (just snaps in place) is about $50.
__________________
Rick Miley
12 Honda Pilot
14 Tesla Model S
Former MB: 86 190E 2.3, 87 300E, 80 240D, 82 204D Euro
Chain Elongation References
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-25-2003, 11:00 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 709
Well...I think I have decided to pass on the car(unless they offer me some crazy price)...think I am going to hold out for a vehicle that is more fully equiped....the MB tex interior if fine...but I want the Xenons and ESP...BUT I do like the head protection airbags that I guess became standard in '99...also have figured out that BOSE is mandatory in the 210 car...I don't llike the standard radio at all...thats actually one of the aspects of the car that seems a huge stepdown from my current car

Actually the 210 car reminds me of the 1992 300D 2.5 I used to have...more features and somewhat faster...but still very much the same I think...

Since there is nothing wrong with my current vehicle...I think I am going to hold out for a more loaded 210...unless ofcourse I rull across a firesale deal

Warren
1992 300SD 169K
Columbus Ohio
Attached Thumbnails
Pondering a 98-99 E300 Turbodiesel-1992-300sd.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-25-2003, 11:14 PM
dtf dtf is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: South East CT
Posts: 822
Glow plug are a weak link in these cars too. They are ~$600 job (I think). Mine has 77,000 miles on it and is a great car. If you love the car, look for a '99 from a MB dealer that is starmarked - you'll be happier knowing you're covered in case something goes wrong -which happens to all cars. I've heard motor mounts can go early too.
__________________
dtf
1994 E320 Wagon (Died @ 308,669 miles)
1995 E300 Diesel (203,000)
1999 E300 Turbodiesel ( died @ 255,000)
2006 Toyota Tundra SR5 AC 4X4 (115,000 miles)
2011 Audi A4 Avant (165,000 miles) Seized engine - donated to Salvation Army
BMW 330 xi 6 speed manual (124,034 miles)
2014 E350 4Matic Wagon 48,000 miles
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2011 Pelican Parts - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page