When is the last time you checked your radiator fins? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

whunter · #16 02-10-2004, 05:51 PM

Hello Everyone
Why waste your time on a used-up radiator?
The service life is 100K or ten years.
Yes, the actual materials loose heat exchange capacity over time, it may look perfect, but I can put it in an Automotive Radiator Calorimeter and prove the massive cooling capacity loss.

I have seen more people blow engines; trying to get another couple of years out of a used-up radiator.
I can make no sense of it.
The last thing any diesel owner wants is an over heated engine, so why are you risking this?

Very confused.

lietuviai · #17 02-10-2004, 07:33 PM

Whunter, I've never heard that a radiator had a service life dependent on the age or mileage. I would think a radiator's efficiency depends mostly on the care and maintenance it got over its lifetime. All my cars that have over 100K miles/10yrs still have their original radiators and still run within their normal operating ranges. My MB is pushing 222K currently and still has its original radiator. Its never overheated while I have owned it even going up steep hills on a hot summer day with the A/C running. The Maverick that I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread had a very poorly maintained cooling system before I got it. The coolant, if you can call it that, when I got the car back in the late 70's, looked like mud. It was in such bad shape that no matter how much cleaning I attempted, it didn't help. I ended up getting a "new" radiator from a wrecking yard which took care of my overheating trouble.
But in either case, I agree with you, why waste time on a used up radiator. They can "wear out" if poorly maintained.

whunter · #18 02-10-2004, 09:51 PM

Hello lietuviai
I apologize in advance; you pushed one of my buttons.
Planned obsolescence is engineered into every car starting around 1971.
It really started to dig in during the mid to late 1980s.
By the mid 1990s you where fired from any OEM if you did not live by the planned obsolescence engineering book.
Today I can truly say, you will in 90 percent of cars get ten years or 100K; then it will be a POS, even if you try to keep it as a garage queen, the metal, rubber and plastics are engineered to fail with age.
It does not matter if you put the vehicle in a climate controlled nitrogen atmosphere sealed vault, at ten years or 100K it is junk; and will require roughly 1/3 to 1/2 the original vehicle cost to make it run for three to five more years.
This is for the average driver.
If you drive harder or live in a harsh climate/environment, like a beach house, expect the OEM to void your warranty on the first excuse they can find.
IMHO there are only a couple of current production cars worth buying; Planned obsolescence is not engineered into these cars.
2004 Maybach $320,000.00
2004 Rolls-Royce $320,000.00
2004 Bentley $264,000.00

The Maverick you refer to was one of the last cars to use the old brass tank and heavy copper tube construction, they over engineered it, hundreds of people would be fired today, if even one model of radiator was as robust and durable as that Maverick radiator.
Just the weight of that old Maverick radiator would eliminate it from engineering design consideration.
Having a vehicle give more than stated life cycle is already hitting millions of retired people where it hurts the most.

Rick Miley · #19 02-11-2004, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by whunter
at ten years or 100K it is junk; and will require roughly 1/3 to 1/2 the original vehicle cost to make it run for three to five more years.

So are you telling me that my E300, which has 95,500 miles, is going to cost me $15,000 to $20,000 to keep running if I don't replace the radiator?

BoostnBenz · #20 02-11-2004, 10:22 AM

My Mercedes has 189k miles on the original radiator, there isn't any corrosion visible from the outside. While I'm certain the inside isn't perfect I doubt it is all that bad either, it mainly was treated with MB coolant.

I think your rule of thumb applies more so to modern domestics (my talon is 12yrs old with 103k miles, and the radiator is rotting on bottom) than to cars like ours. Any vehicle which can easily attain 400k+ miles more than likely wasn't designed to fall apart.

whunter · #21 02-11-2004, 08:01 PM

Hello Everyone
Note:
I am not attacking anyone.
The sad fact is that I am stating real world design engineering fact.

Hello BoostnBenz
My overall statement was directed at all current 2004 production off the line, the only exceptions where noted.

As to your current radiator, at 189k miles on the original radiator.
The service life is 100K or ten years.
Yes, the actual materials loose heat exchange capacity over time, it may look perfect, but I can put it in an Automotive Radiator Calorimeter and prove the massive cooling capacity loss.
An average of 20 - 40 percent by your description.
I am NOT saying that your radiator is bad in the generally accepted ways, reduced capacity is not as blatantly critical as a massive leak.
However it can cause the engine to run just a little hotter over a longer time, which soon leaves you no margin for error.
I know that a couple of degrees does not mean much under average conditions, but how long does it take to overheat enough to warp the head, is the cost of a new radiator worth the risk.
My rule of thumb applies to all 2004 current production vehicles.

Hello Rick Miley
I am not sure how you derived this question.
What I am saying:
All Current production vehicles coming off the line have Planned obsolescence engineered into every wire, module, and scrap of metal or piece of plastic.
At or around 100K they are designed to fail.
You can throw money down a hole trying to keep it running for a while longer; but it is a loosing game plan.
The other statement was
Why waste time repairing a used-up (junk) radiator?
When a new radiator is $200.00 or less.
If you repair it and it has a catastrophic failure at the wrong moment; you loose your engine.
If you patch it and patch it, etc, etc, it is not cost effective (in terms of your time).

BoostnBenz · #22 02-11-2004, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by whunter

Today I can truly say, you will in 90 percent of cars get ten years or 100K; then it will be a POS, even if you try to keep it as a garage queen, the metal, rubber and plastics are engineered to fail with age. It does not matter if you put the vehicle in a climate controlled nitrogen atmosphere sealed vault, at ten years or 100K it is junk; and will require roughly 1/3 to 1/2 the original vehicle cost to make it run for three to five more years.

Rick was refering to this.

Rick Miley · #23 02-11-2004, 08:55 PM

Yes I was. I thought whunter was referring only to the radiator when he really meant the whole car. In summary, to keep a car running past 10y/100K will cost 30-50% of purchase price.

I'm starting to believe it! See my thread about the $793 leaking fuel hose.

lietuviai · #24 02-11-2004, 09:41 PM

My '93 Silverado with the ultra-rare LT-1 350 (at least in a p/u, this engine was almost exclusively used in Vettes and police cars) is sort of a garage queen but it does have 128K on it and still looks and runs like it did when I drove it from the dealer showroom. I have never needed to do anything other than the routine maintenance on it. I have enjoyed driving this truck so much that if it weren't for my current financial situation, I would still be driving it instead of the MB on a daily basis. So for now the Silverado is a garage queen and I am a member of this forum
Whunter, there's no need to apologize. I have a way with pushing people's buttons so maybe I should be the one to apologize.

BoostnBenz · #25 02-11-2004, 11:31 PM

That sounds like an expensive fuel leak.

richard28 · #26 02-12-2004, 09:45 AM

Guys,any advice on the best way to straighten those squashed radiator fins?

BoostnBenz · #27 02-12-2004, 10:13 AM

There is something called a radiator fin comb or something of that sort, as the name implies you run it through the fins and it combs the down ones up. If there are just a few of them I normally just use a little steel plate or something I can fit in there easily and slide it up every run that needs to be straightened.

richard28 · #28 02-12-2004, 11:00 AM

Thanks, Jeff

lietuviai · #29 02-12-2004, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BoostnBenz
There is something called a radiator fin comb or something of that sort, as the name implies you run it through the fins and it combs the down ones up. If there are just a few of them I normally just use a little steel plate or something I can fit in there easily and slide it up every run that needs to be straightened.

I've always used a couple of old butter or steak knives for fixing any bent fins. Works great!