"Ether", use and abuse. *Flame suit on* - Page 5 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

gsxr · #1 02-05-2009, 11:52 AM

Using even a 1-second shot of ether into a high-compression, indirect-injection diesel engine with precombustion chambers and glow plugs is pure idiocy. Most cans of ether explicitly warn against using it in that type of engine. Cracked rings, bent rods, all sorts of fun things can happen. The ether simply ignites too early in the compression stroke.

Most engines can bs started normally (without ether, or WD-40, or gasoline, or anything else) if the glow plugs, battery, and starter are all in good condition. If they are not, fix them. Or you could be the proud new owner of a 1000-lb doorstop / shop ornament.

It's a shame the first post on this thread can't be deleted.

leathermang · #2 09-04-2014, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

wd40 is not a cold start aid. It is a way to start the car if you have a need to bleed and for some reason your prime pump does not work correctly. You have to spray it directly into the intake and keep spraying it. if the engine is sound it will run on the wd 40 until the fuel lines bleed themselves and take over as long as you keep spraying.

Exactly, well put.

leathermang · #3 12-11-2009, 10:49 PM

What in the world is a " low compression diesel engine " ? LOL

I suggest all this hand wringing is unnecessary because the number of btu's ( power ) in a couple of seconds of ether or starter fluid spray is way less than the power produced all the time by regular diesel fuel...

The one time you really really should NOT use either is if you have a heated intake on your diesel... like my ford tractor... but it says exactly that on the side of the engine.

I think JimSmith has posted the definitive explanation on this subject... somewhere in the archives...

gsxr · #4 12-11-2009, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

What in the world is a " low compression diesel engine " ? LOL

Approx 16:1 instead of approx 22:1 ratio. Pretty common among older direct injection engines. Most indirect injection are the higher compression ratios (MB & VW through about 1999, anyway).

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

I suggest all this hand wringing is unnecessary because the number of btu's ( power ) in a couple of seconds of ether or starter fluid spray is way less than the power produced all the time by regular diesel fuel...

You're missing the point, LMG. The ether ignites at the wrong time, too early in the cycle, and tries to force the piston down when it was trying to still move upwards. Has nothing to do with BTU's or power, it's timing. Great way to crack rings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

The one time you really really should NOT use either is if you have a heated intake on your diesel... like my ford tractor... but it says exactly that on the side of the engine.

And on any engine with glow plugs, you really really should NOT use ether... and it says exactly that on the side of the can of starting fluid.

mach0415 · #5 01-17-2011, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr

Approx 16:1 instead of approx 22:1 ratio. Pretty common among older direct injection engines. Most indirect injection are the higher compression ratios (MB & VW through about 1999, anyway).

Ditto. Watched a EMS garage crew bring in a cylinder head that had been blown off a 1996 7.3 DIT in a bam-balance because an idiot went crazy with the ether, due to a notoriously bad glow plug controller and through-valve cover gasket. As for Navistar DIT engines, compression ratios are lower for the turbo charged DI engines than they were for the IDI NA and Ford-installed Banks systems found in the 1994 1/2 trucks. This is one reason why the engine could not pull its own weight without a turbo if it was inop.

layback40 · #6 12-11-2009, 11:29 PM

I think whunter & Brian have some good advice. The only time I have used ether is a quick spray in an old 871 GM 2 stroke in a scraper, they don't have much comp at the best of times. Anything with glow plugs doesn't need ether!

leathermang · #7 12-12-2009, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by layback40

Anything with glow plugs doesn't need ether!

That is nice theory.

If you are out in the country at a job site and your equipment or your car will not start except with the addition of a spray of starter fluid and you have to get it going that day... what exactly do you suggest for the alternative ?

I know several people who have used gas mixed with their diesel to get started in very cold weather.. as per the MB owners manual.. I know of bulldozer operators who ran out of diesel and had to use straight gasoline to start and get back to the diesel can ... and lots of people who have used starter spray with no bad effects when they needed it...

It is often the case that a few examples of damage ( and from situations where the variables are not known before or after ) using something are repeated as horror stories that the actual percent of incidence is lost in the flags flying around... We might be talking about five engines damaged in 20 million applications of starter spray into the intake... I have no idea...

I still say that if the only way your car will start is with a two second spray into the intake of starter fluid with the engine being cranked over go ahead and use it because there are often no reasonable alternatives.

gsxr · #8 12-12-2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

I still say that if the only way your car will start is with a two second spray into the intake of starter fluid with the engine being cranked over go ahead and use it because there are often no reasonable alternatives.

That's fine if you are using the ether on YOUR engines - if it breaks anything, you have to deal with the consequences. It's an entirely different story if you're recommending that OTHER people do this. You conveniently escape from any problems that may occur afterwards. Unless you're willing to pay the repair bill...?

Besides, I have personally tried using ether on a diesel engine with glow plugs (in desparation, on my own engine, years ago) and guess what? It didn't work. The engine just made rude noises and didn't fire anyway. A fully charged battery, working glow plugs, and block heater worked every time when ether didn't. I'm glad ether works for you, but I don't think it's wise for anyone to publicly recommend a procedure that is forbidden both by MB, as well as the label on the can of ether itself.

P.E.Haiges · #9 12-13-2009, 02:00 AM

My old (circa 1960) Case Diesel tractor has 4 manifold heaters that heat the incoming air. They are similar to a cigarette lighter coil and are screwed in the intake manifold.

The heaters are not manufactured any more and all 4 of mine were burned out. The replacement from Case parts service is a can of starting fluid with attachment so that the starting can be sprayed into the intake manifold where a heater was removed.

P E H

Brad123D · #10 01-17-2011, 05:19 PM

My 6.2 chevy van has a warning near the intake - "NOTICE- DO NOT USE STARTING FLUIDS, IMMEDIATE ENGINE DAMAGE CAN RESULT"

I never use ether on a diesel engine. I use it on gasoline engines only.

I use WD-40 on very rare occasions. My local injection pump shop uses WD-40 to help start some engines after a pump rebuild, etc.

Ether is too "hot" for high compression engines, ignites too early, burns too fast.

I have 14 ,or so,diesel vehicles/trucks/tractors. MB, Chevy, Cummins, Case, Massey-Ferg.

Good maintenance = no starting aids required. Note: I do live in TN...occasional single digit temps. only.

whunter · #11 09-04-2014, 02:54 AM

for new members.

With winter coming, you need to know this.

.

johnathan1 · #12 10-02-2010, 04:21 PM

There's nothing as depraved as a man in the depths of an ether binge...

#13 10-02-2010, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnathan1

There's nothing as depraved as a man in the depths of an ether binge...

Thanks, Hunter.

whunter · #14 02-06-2011, 05:02 AM

Many cleaning fluids can react like starting fluid...

Near fatal... and a warning
Near fatal... and a warning

biopete · #15 01-09-2012, 12:15 AM

I've never used starting fluid in a MB. But i've used it a bunch in my Isuzu when I forget to switch from vegetable oil. It does fine. Although the engine is had a lot of blow by to begin with.

Given the success in teh isuzu I tried it one day in my 6.2 suburban ignoring the sticker on the air filter cover than read "Do not use starting fluid. Immediate engine damage can occur" Seriously that is what it says. Well, now i know why it says that. it vapor locked the engine right away. Had to wait 10 minutes before it would go normally. Engine still runs fine though.

Then when getting a 6.5 worked on by a mechanic he tried to use starting fluid. I suspected it wouldn't go well but he was the mechanic. It vapor locked and we heard pieces of the starter hit the pavement. The 6.2 and 6.5 Chevy diesels really don't like starting fluid at all even the least bit.

We used it once as a last resort in a 1981 VW rabbit parked in an alley that had "Move Me" spray painted on it. It started and we moved it.

That was the best use of starting fluid i ever had.

That's my experience with it. So does it work on MBs , 617, 602, 606, 610? I don't know. I guess i better read this thread