WHen there is a Performance Complaint... the shop manual is VERY SPECIFIC...
you must use the " movement of the intake valve in number one cylinder" to check chain stretch...
Using any other method is the Waste Of Time...

Leather...

You've lost your mind. Sure, the method in the manual is more precise, but he hasn't even measured it in any way right now. If you tell him to do it the way the manual indicates, he'll just change the chain. You can easily get within 2 degrees with the eye ball method.

Remember, he doesn't know if he has 2 degrees of wear or 14 degrees of wear.

240Joe

Leathermang,

You just made me think of all the times I yelled at my now deceased mom, when she didn't "turn the key right" or "hold the vise grip" at the right angle. All my fault of course, but she bore the brunt of my exasperation. Always was there to help the next time too, regardless.



Women should not be subjected to our being exasperated while we "learn as we go".

__________________
Enough about me, how are you doing?

No, I have no idea of the exact amount, I have not measured it, but based on the symptoms that I have, there might be a significant amount.
I honestly have no idea what's really wrong. I've never had a diesel that I had to work on. I am just going by what other members have suggested to me. The car runs good enough but it needs new injectors to help it idle smoother and have better AM start ups. I nearly gave up on this car thinking it could be the IP was going bad.

__________________
DJ


84 300D Turbodiesel 190K with 4 speed manual sold in 03/2012

Then measure the wear. It's so easy there is no reason not to do it. And you don't have to use the anal method leather talked about. You just need to know if you have more than 5 or 6 degrees of wear. If you do, changing the chain is worthwhile. If not, you'll just spend another hundred, drop another 3 hours, invent some new curse words, and still have the smoke in the end.

I bet you'll find that your chain is fine and the real problem is either the ip timing or the injectors. If the injectors are over 150kmiles, then pull them and send them somewhere to be tested. Most major cities have someone that can do it. Look in the yellow pages under diesel injection.

240Joe

240Joe,
I don't have any abnormal smoke. I think I've done all that I can in regards to the injectors. I sure my injectors are probably worn out since they are the original ones and I have over 223K miles. The trouble started when I tried using a calibrated set of injectors. I thought that I would be able to just swap them out. It wouldn't run right and it smoked bad with the original IP timing setting. I then advanced the IP to get it to run better and it seemed to have pre-ignition symptoms. I gave up on that idea and put my original injectors back in and returned the IP back to its original timing mark. So now I just have to check my timing chain as you mentioned to see if its stretched beyond 5°.
The thing is, I don't want to dump lots more money into this car.

__________________
DJ


84 300D Turbodiesel 190K with 4 speed manual sold in 03/2012

What do you mean by "a calibrated set of injectors". Are they rebuilt? Do they have new nozzles on them?

I sure hope you don't mean that they all pop at the same pressure, and that's it, because the spray pattern is very important.

It is very odd that your "new" injectors made it run worse. I suspect that your "new" injectors have a problem, and your old injectors are about worn out.

How about a real set of rebuilt injectors or testing them?

240Joe

Ash sez:
How do you test injectors?

I have no idea how old mine are, but I don't smoke much... thing is, my milage sucks. (Granted I'm driving in San Francisco, and going WFO all the time.)

Thanks,
Cheers!
Ash

__________________
Ash Peltier - tools, truck, tales
---------510-331-4118-----------
1982 240D - (272,000)
1998 Honda VTR1000F(RT) Superhawk Freeway (58,000) "Madrid"
1996 Toyota T100 4x4 (84,000) "Mary Kay"

240Joe,
The injectors were calibrated to pop at 140 bar and they were verified for their spray pattern. Could the fact that they needed a slightly higher pressure to pop (instead of 135 bar) be part of the problem?

__________________
DJ


84 300D Turbodiesel 190K with 4 speed manual sold in 03/2012

240Joe, Even with my mind lost.... I CAN READ THE MANUAL.... and it says " if there is a performance complaint then the intake valve method is to be used to measure stretch"...
Other than thinking you are smarter than the Engineers that wrote the manual... what is your excuse ?

Seat of the pants vs. Mechanical Engineer... I think more of the latter end up praying like the former than vice versa.

__________________
Ash Peltier - tools, truck, tales
---------510-331-4118-----------
1982 240D - (272,000)
1998 Honda VTR1000F(RT) Superhawk Freeway (58,000) "Madrid"
1996 Toyota T100 4x4 (84,000) "Mary Kay"

Come on leather, do I have to explain it so a 3rd grader can understand. Here are the facts. He's about to change his timing chain because someone on this board told him it "might" be the problem. I said he should at least check it the quick and dirty way before he changes it. He doesn't know if he has 2 degrees of wear, or 15 degrees of wear.

If you tell someone to follow the manual, he has to find a dial indicator. That alone will chase off 75% of the do it yourselfer crowd. And it really doesn't matter.

And, with this focus, you are leading him down the wrong path. As I stated previously, I doubt the problem is the chain. He admits that the original injectors have over 200kmiles on them, and he put in "calibrated injectors", which made the engine run even worse than with the old injectors.

My conclusions is that his IP is ok, his alda is fine, his chain is probably ok, and he has worn injectors, and tried to replace them with injectors that are screwed up in some manner.

And yes, I do consider myself at least as smart as the engineers that wrote the manual....I am an engineer.

240Joe

If I couldn't trust the guy from whom I got the calibrated injectors from, then there's probably no one else I would trust. He actually loaned me the injectors and didn't charge me me anything except for shipping. All I have to do now is send them back to him.
I don't know of any good diesel shops in my area. The only local indy MB shop doesn't even have a test stand for diesel injectors.
There is another indy MB shop about an hour to hour & half away but they are expensive! They're almost as expensive as the stealership.
I have no idea who else could test my injectors. And even if I found someone else, they would probably tell me my injectors are not to spec as I already feel they are.

__________________
DJ


84 300D Turbodiesel 190K with 4 speed manual sold in 03/2012

Courtesey of Pindelski site. I took some notes when it was free

If using the Injection pump locking tool (W 601 589 05 21 00), the engine must be set at 15 degree After Top Dead Center.

This is where your pre-determination of chain stretch kicks in. If your chain is stretched one degree retarded, so you must set the engine at 14 degree ATDC. before inserting the tool. If your chain is stretched 3 degrees, then you set the engine at 12 degree ATDC. and so on.

"END of NOTES"

__________________
Shane83SD

Would anyone care to loan me the tool or can someone take a photo of the tool next to a measuring tape so I could possibly make it myself?

__________________
DJ


84 300D Turbodiesel 190K with 4 speed manual sold in 03/2012