OK, so I'm thinking about changing the timing chain... - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

lietuviai · #46 03-19-2004, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 240Joe
Leather,

Why do you insist on wasting his time.

lietuviai...please just look at the marks and tell us what you see.

If you listen to leather, you're going to need a full up machine shop, two master machinists, an engineer or two, probably a manager to run your shop, and a huge bank loan to pay for it all.

Stop listening to him...period...there I said it.

240Joe

I don't have the valve cover off yet. It might be early next week before I do that. I don't mind buying tools that I can use. Also, I wear a lot of hats so I won't need to hire anyone.
I just finished printing up the four sections of the FSM. Now I remember why I like owning a M-B.

Rick Miley · #47 03-19-2004, 02:56 PM

Never mind. Found it here.

lietuviai · #48 03-19-2004, 02:58 PM

Yep, that's one of the four sections that I just printed up. Lots of good info there.

240Joe · #49 03-19-2004, 03:14 PM

Sorry,

I thought you wanted to fix the car in the quickest, cheapest manner. Apparently you want to play.

You're on your own. I hope Leather can tell you what to do after you get that mighty accurate chain wear data.

This is going to be funny..

HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEH

240Joe

driad_98 · #50 03-19-2004, 03:29 PM

Ash say:

Sour grapes. Why not do it the right way? Surely you know what happens so very often when you don't. It the principle of the thing. 240, you're loosing votes faster than Howard Dean did after 'the scream'.

Seems like the thing here is to give your best opinion/suggestion, debate it a bit, and get done with the thread. What's the point of spending so much time arguing over the subjective deets, not to mention getting insulting (and you're not the only one). Sheesh, we're all here for a shared love of our ride, and the process we go through with them. I'm done reading this thread, I hope some or all of y'all can spare the $0 it costs to buy some patience, perspective and benefit of doubts.

(I know, I know, you may not be in Northern California, where the air is warm and the girl are pretty, but hold on, it can't be far off where you are.)

Cheers,
Ash

240Joe · #51 03-19-2004, 07:41 PM

driad_89

Sour grapes? What do I care? I was trying to help the guy. He could have checked the chain stretch in 1/4 of the time he spent talking about the dial indicator...what a waste of time.

You have to remember....I'm thinking that he doesn't have a timing chain problem...either he has less than 5 degrees of wear, or he might have a little more, but putting in a new chain won't help him anyway...it's something else.

Read the posts...Leather has had him on a wild goose chase for days...first it's the compression, then the alda....one guess after another. And everytime he guesses, another "tool" is needed.

This is amateurish troubleshooting if there every was any. It drives me crazy to see so much time and $ wasted. I know it's everyone personal choice how to proceed. That's their business but some things are so illogical they need to be pointed out.

I really want to know what the next step in this saga is. After he makes the super accurate chain wear measurement, then what does he do with it? And after the compression test, what does he do with those numbers? Write them down, talk about them for a week are so with no conclusion, and then file them in the circular file.

I'm just trying to help him get it fixed fast....like I wish someone would help me if and when I need it. However, it is clear he doesn't want any help fixing it, he wants to work on it for the next month or two...which is ok by me.

And remember, eventually he's going to break something very costly. It's called maintenance induced failure, and if you "play" enough, you are guaranteed to get one.

And that's all I have to say about that.

Let talk oil changes

240Joe

engatwork · #52 03-19-2004, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Let talk oil changes

not here

- take it to the open forum.

Plantman · #53 03-19-2004, 07:55 PM

I don't kno **** about timing chain stretch, but youse guys are too cute!!!!!!!

leathermang · #54 03-19-2004, 08:04 PM

"Read the posts...Leather has had him on a wild goose chase for days...first it's the compression, then the alda....one guess after another. And everytime he guesses, another "tool" is needed"
----240Joe

This is the first thing I have REALLY agreed with.... I hope everyone goes back and READS MY POSTS...

I never even suggested the checking of the chain.... 240Joe did that...

All I did was qoute the Mercedes Factory Shop manual which says ' if there is a performance complaint the intake valve method should be used'....

I did respond to the idea that a compression test was useless... which I pretty much assume everyone except 240Joe knows is false...

240Joe · #55 03-19-2004, 08:24 PM

Wait just a minute Leatherman, the guy that started the post said he was thinking about changing his chain. You immediately said to get the manual. I came along and asked the question if he had ever checked the chain for wear. He said he did not, so I told him to use the very quick method of lining up the marks.

That's when you sent him on another tool buying job to get the dial indicator. You climbed up on your high horse and said it's the only way to do it correctly....BS!. I think that is totally unnecessary. He does not to this day know if he has 0 degree wear or 15 degree wear.

And I will state again that a compression test for this case is totally useless. I don't see anyone agreeing with you on this one. Compression tests, and leak down tests frequently give varying results. Then everyone sits around trying to figure out what they mean.

Go to the MBZ.org website and do a search there on compression tests. The very experienced Dr. Booth (diesel doctor) has stated very clearly that compression tests are not as good as the true test of cold starting. He has seen test results vary all over the place with the same engine. What good is that?

240Joe

driad_98 · #56 03-19-2004, 08:31 PM

Ok, I lied, still reading.

What's the cold start test, 240?

leathermang · #57 03-19-2004, 08:35 PM

Ok,, my bad....

NO ONE SHOULD GET A SHOP MANUAL... THESE ARE TOTALLY USELESS.... 240Joe has convinced me...
ALSO, DON'T GET THE HAYNES MANUAL EITHER.... THE BETTER PHOTOS IN IT WILL JUST MESS UP YOUR MIND....
PEOPLE SHOULD ALSO AVOID ALL TOOLS... THESE ARE JUST MONEY PITS WHICH WILL COST MONEY THE NEXT TIME YOU HAVE TO MOVE...AND TAKE UP ROOM IN YOUR GARAGE WHICH COULD BETTER BE USED BY A DOG.....
I am really sorry if I have ever talked anyone into getting a shop manual.... it is much better to just ask questions on the board.... it is WAY TOO WORRISOME to see the mulitiple charts and warnings in the manual.... real DEPRESSING.....

driad_98 · #58 03-19-2004, 08:42 PM

Just so long as you've seen the light.
Plastigage is bunk, too, I hear.

240Joe · #59 03-19-2004, 09:30 PM

I think I've figured it out. You see, you guys have made this a hobby. I'm an engineer and don't really look at it like a hobby. To me, it's $ and time that I trade for reliable transportation. I've found that these cars give the most reliable transportation for $ and time spent.

As an engineer, I look at things from the efficiency power of view. It's output and input. I think doing a 5 minute check that costs nothing is a great thing. You guys like to make that same check at 2 day affair. First you have to buy tools, then you do your thing, then you talk about it.

I once had a friend that had probably $8k worth of snap on tools in his 3 car garage. The funny thing was that he always drove brand new cars under warranty. I asked him why he had all those tools if he never used them. He only reply was that he had them "just in case". You guys are like him.

240Joe

lietuviai · #60 03-19-2004, 09:40 PM

240Joe, you're a character! I actually see some humor in your rants and I enjoy them. I haven't bought any new tools except a 27mm deep socket since I've owned this car. I'll probably try your method just to get a rough idea and then try the Leathermang's FSM approach to just compare the results. I honestly believe Leathermang is trying to help me. I appreciate the time he's taking to help me try to solve my trouble. I'm on spring break now and I'll have lots of time to tinker with the car.
You say you're an engineer, I'm curious, in what field?