dumb valve adjust question 300DT - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

TonyFromWestOz · #16 07-12-2004, 11:03 AM

Coach,
This weekend, I did the valve clearances on my '84 300D. To turn the motor over, I removed the fan and cown, and used the 27mm socket with a 4" extension. I was able to use the socket ratchet from the top and looked down the line of the cam while turning the crank.
As I also needed to replace the alternator/waterpump belt, this worked well for me.

P.E.Haiges · #17 07-12-2004, 11:28 AM

Tony,

Its an engine, not a motor. At least in English speaking countries.

I turn the engine from the bottom and don't have to remove the fan. Of course it easier because I have a pit under the car. Three movements of the ratchet handle gets me to the next valve.

P E H

RockinWagin · #18 07-12-2004, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by P.E.Haiges
Ken,

With my pictorial on the wall and moving the crank the same amount each time, I do it in up and down 10 cycles on the steps in my grease pit.

P E H

You guys with pits and lifts are spoiled. Its much less fun to get up and down from under the car 10 or more times, these days.

I like to use the remote starter switch also, but find that after 3 or 4 sets of valves, the engine wants to start firing. My next adjustment is coming up and I need to do the fan clutch repair. I'll just combine the two and do the valves while the fan is off.

P.E.Haiges · #19 07-12-2004, 01:50 PM

Rockin,

If you leave the key switch turned off, the engine should not try to start because it won't get any fuel. Just thought if your vacuum system looses all its vacuum, engine could get fuel. With the accelerator linkage apart, couldn't engine run away if it started? The manaul shut off is also disabeled with the linkage apart.

I don't like using the remote starter switch because of the wear on the starter and pinion/ring gear. Using a ratchet to turn the engine wears nothing and there is no chance of the engine starting and running away.

P E H

RockinWagin · #20 07-12-2004, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by P.E.Haiges
Rockin,

If you leave the key switch turned off, the engine should not try to start because it won't get any fuel.
P E H

Ok, you are right about that, but the slight rumble of trying to start makes one hesitate to hit that switch again.

DieselAddict · #21 07-12-2004, 06:03 PM

Can someone explain why it's such a big deal not to turn the engine backward? I've read about this too but not until after 2 valve adjustments where I did turn the engine backward. It seemed to turn backward as easily as forward and I haven't noticed any ill effects. Was I just lucky or is this whole thing just blown out of proportion?

JamesStein · #22 07-12-2004, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DieselAddict
Can someone explain why it's such a big deal not to turn the engine backward? I've read about this too but not until after 2 valve adjustments where I did turn the engine backward. It seemed to turn backward as easily as forward and I haven't noticed any ill effects. Was I just lucky or is this whole thing just blown out of proportion?

The problem is.. if you have any slack or play in the timing chain/belt, your engine will turn out of time. Or at worst you might jump the chain or belt.

If it doesn't jump the chances that you're pistons will collide with your valves are increased. Not to mention your valve timing may not be correct when you are done.

SoyDriver Matt · #23 07-13-2004, 12:17 AM

On mine (just got done doing both SD's, then rechecking them a week later) I cut a little chunk out of the bottom of the fan shroud to open up some ratchet room (with the fan clutch it doesn't matter if the fan's riding on the ratchet a little), and you do get a feel for how far to wrench it to get the next lobe lined up...

TonyFromWestOz · #24 07-13-2004, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by P.E.Haiges
Tony,

Its an engine, not a motor. At least in English speaking countries.

I turn the engine from the bottom and don't have to remove the fan. Of course it easier because I have a pit under the car. Three movements of the ratchet handle gets me to the next valve.

P E H

PEH, I am glad that you were able to understand my post and interpret for me. As far as I am concerned, the terms are interchangable.

I will try not to offend you again, but offer no guarantee that I will not use the word MOTOR, when you believe I should use the word ENGINE.

SoyDriver Matt · #25 07-13-2004, 11:39 AM

The definition of a motor...

: 1. Something, such as a machine or an engine, that produces or imparts motion.
2. A device that converts any form of energy into mechanical energy, especially an internal-combustion engine or an arrangement of coils and magnets that converts electric current into mechanical power.

P.E.Haiges · #26 07-13-2004, 06:35 PM

Soy,

I know what the dictionary says but that does not make it true. I looked up concierge one time and the dictionary said it was a janitor. I haven't seen many concierges pushing brooms.

Since the people that write dictionarys are liberal arts graduates, they don't know their ass from first base about mechanics. So I don't necessarily believe them when they talk about mechanical devices.

Wouldn't it sound stupid to call your starter motor a starter engine or you blower motor a blower engine or the motor that lifts your windows a window lift engine. Nobody would know what you are talking about.

An engine creates mechanical energy by burning a fuel and an oxidizer. Examples are Diesel engine, steam engine, gasoline engine, jet engine, rocket engine compound engine, ETC.

Motors convert a type of energy to mechanical energy but not by burning a fuel. Examples are electric motor, hydraulic motor, air motor, water turbine, ETC.

P E H

SoyDriver Matt · #27 07-14-2004, 02:49 PM

I think what the definition is saying is that an engine is a type of motor, that's all. So I wouldn't call the electric motors in the car engines. But I could see calling the engine a type of motor...

P.E.Haiges · #28 07-15-2004, 10:06 AM

Soy,

I don't agree that an engine is a type of motor. A motor does not burn a fuel. If a motor and an engine were the same thing, why have two separate words.

If each of the two words is used properly you will be expressing your self better and people will be better informed of what you are talking about.

P E H

TonyFromWestOz · #29 07-15-2004, 10:27 AM

It may be common usage for mechanics to call an ICE an engine and other devices for creating rotary motion motors, but the general populace (and most of those here are from that group) call these things (ICE) the motor in their car.

There may also be geographic influences in the language, which affect this issue.

Don't forget that the "engine" on a train is the thing at the front (or wherever along the train it happens to be) which provides the motive power, regardless whether it is a Steam, Diesel, Diesel-Electric or Electric, Engine.

RockinWagin · #30 07-15-2004, 11:23 AM

OK, I tried to stay out of this motor/engine debate, but it is just too inviting.

Tony, most people here in the U.S. say engine instead of motor in autos/trucks. But if the common usage in Australia is motor or if the terms are interchangeable there (as they really are here also) then say motor if you wish and ignore PEH.

PEH, do you really know that "engine" is the absolutely correct term in all "English speaking countries." Why were the early internal combustion driven vehicles called "MOTORcars" for many years? And when I buy oil for my diesel engine, why does the label say "[brand] MOTOR OIL." Further, to borrow from the Fine Arts, I quote Sinclair Lewis:

Quote:

“It was a night of lovers. All along the highway... motors were parked and dim figures were clasped in revery”

Finally, to go to the best source of information (television advertising), there is a local company that sells rebuilt engines and transmissions. Their ad features a catchy jingle something like "[name of company] MOTORS and transmissions, yeeha" followed by horns honking, played over a picture of a red Cadillac Eldorado convertible with longhorns on the front and a cowboy waiving his ten-gallon hat behind the wheel. So, technically correct or not, motor has been, and always will be used interchangeably with engine in common usage.

BTW, while I have been working on motors in cars and trucks, including Detroit and Cummins diesels, and including a lengthy employment as a professional mechanic, my undergraduate degree was a Bachelor of Arts. So I must contest your overly broad and discriminatory statement:

Quote:

Since the people that write dictionarys are liberal arts graduates, they don't know their ass from first base about mechanics. "

.

Some of us may know an ass from first base. And the politically correct term would be "Fine Arts" as "liberal" connotes a derogatory image which should be avoided in polite company.

All of this was in good humor.