Here's an update (and a few questions) on our engine rebuild.

We finally got all the Tab A's put in to the correct Slot B's, and the engine was ready to put back in the car last weekend. I wouldn't really describe this as a great husband-wife event (just the two of us did this! , but we survived (didn't even run over my foot this time). Then began the task of connecting the electrical and vaccum hoses, which are different on the 1985 vs the 1981. We opted to go with the 1981 plan because we are using a 1981 motor/trans in a 1985 car (and we were able to copy the wiring that is in our daily driver, also a 1981). The speedometer connection is totally different between the two years. Anyway, it's back in the car, all the vaccum lines and electrical hooked up.... and of course it won't start. Nothing would be that easy. The glow plugs light up, then nothing. Totally flat when you turn the key.

So, my questions are: (but feel free to jump with any advice you think might help).

1. Is there a way to check a starter when it's off the car (we have a second starter but since it's such a bear to replace it, it would be nice to know it worked for certain). We haven't determined the starter is the problem, just trying to rule it out.

2. The Haynes manual talks about testing the starter by hooking a switch up to terminal 30 and 50, which hubby did. When he flips the switch, you can hear the selenoid click and that's it. It should try to turn over, shouldn't it? (Which is why he thinks it might be the starter)

3. I was going to try to post the wiring diagrams for the 1981 vs 1985, but with the size I am allowed to post I think they will be completely illegible. If anyone has the online manual, perhaps you could check. There is an item #50, which on the 1981 diagram is inside the starter lockout switch. In the 1985 it is inside it's own box outside of the starter lockout switch. What is it? Could it be somehow that it is still locking us out somehow??

Thanks!

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Natalie

A couple of suggestions

1) Check the neutral safety switch (NSS) on the tranny. Try starting the car in neutral. When in 'R', the reverse lights should light up

2) With key in max right position, that means cranking position, slowly move trans from P to all the way to N and slowly back. Jiggle it a little

3) FAcing the car, jump the furtherest 2 terminals (from the battery) on the 3 terminal box on the right fender.

4) The starting circuit goes thru the NSS and completes on the starter that turns the flywheel. Check the positive cable from starter to battery.

5) Check battery. What kind of power is it putting out

6)Lets us know what u find out

First, make sure the ground strap between the body and the starter (and engine) is good and properly connected on both ends. Otherwise, there is almost no electrical connection between engine and battery on the ground side, and something will burn up (usually the shift linkage).

If the ground is OK, and you only get a click from the solenoid, either the solenoid is bad (contacts burned out) or the starter motor is bad (there is also a slight chance the motor "strap" connection between solenoid and starter is broken). If the lights dim and nothing happens, the starter is locked up.

You can test the starter off the car by attaching jumper cables (negative to starter housing, positive to postive cable connection) and then use a screwdriver or wire to connect the "start" wire connection to the positive cable. It will jump, so hold the starter down with a foot. If it's stuck, it will likely flip over.

I would guess you have either a bad ground strap or a dead starter.

Peter

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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

If the solenoid only clicks, it might not be completing the heavy current carrying circuit that actually allows the starter to get power. So I would not rule out the solenoid, in fact my personal experience with MB starters hs been that the solenoid and related connections have been the problem most of the time.

Congratulations to you both on getting it all the way back together and to this point, not many folks are this brave!

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1961 190Db retired
1968 220D/8 325,000
1983 300D 164,150

We did do this, and no it won't start in neutral, and yes the back up lights come on in reverse. Thanks for the other suggestions dieselbagel, will try those too (and may be back with more questions to clarify). Can we really safely move from P to N while in the cranking position? You have to pass through R (of course).

psfred, since I first posted my question, hubby was able to test the starter using jumper cables, much as you described. The one that was 'off' the car was still attached to another motor so it didn't flip over. The starter that is in the car also worked when jumped with the cables. So that's good news.

He did mention checking the grounds, but I didn't ask what happened with that. I assumed no news meant it looked okay.

Lycoming-8, the Haynes manual also seems to indicate it could be the selenoid connections (since it clicks but doesn't start), so you could be right. I think that is the next thing to check.

Thanks for the help! I'll keep you posted.

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Natalie

With a good Neutral Safety Switch (NSS), the car can only start in P or N. So when u shift the gear stick from P thru N, it can only crank in P or N.

If it starts in P or N, stop moving the gear stick!

How goes it?

Thanks for the interest dieselbagel. The rainy weather returned, so he hasn't been able to work outside the last couple of days. Hubby removed the selonoid from the other motor, and will try installing that when the weather improves. He also discovered that the previous owner had replaced this plastic MB bushing on the control arm attached to the gear shift with a piece of rubber hose. So he fabricated another plastic one on his lathe. Seems like a good idea for it to be perfectly rigid.

But that's the only progress so far. I'm hoping this is our lucky weekend! In the meantime, could you clarify this a little more?

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Natalie

On the right fender is a rectangular box with wires coming from the starter. Pop off the cover.

There r 3 terminals (3 screws holding 3 set of wires).

The 3 screws r perpendicular to the battery.

Use a wire and connect the 2 furtheset screws from the battery. This bypasses the NSS.

If this starts the car, then the NSS is faulty. Else u need to look at the starter, the positive cable, and the negative ground from the battery. Clean the end of the negative cable that bolts on the body of the car.

SSA

Okay, I thought that's what you meant. Yes, we did do this. I was confused because you said 'Facing the car it's on the right', but when you face the car it's on the left (passenger side). Anyway, when we do this all we hear is the click of the selenoid, no turning over. But when hubby applied power directly to the starter, it turns. So, he's recharging the battery first (easiest), and if that doesn't work he's going to change the starter selenoid.

Say a prayer for us.

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Natalie

I use a jumper switch on those terminals to turn the engine over while adjusting the valves. It didin't always turn over, sometimes it would only click. After repeated trys it would turn over. One time the car started while doing that. It made a big mess without valve cover before I was able to shut it off.

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DJ


84 300D Turbodiesel 190K with 4 speed manual sold in 03/2012

It started! It started! It started! Whooo hooo! It turned out to be the battery! Doh! He did check it with a battery checker, and it was fine, but he noticed the fluid level was down so decided to try a different battery, and viola!! It idled for about 10 minutes, was rather rough at first but smoother after it idled. It seemed to smoke a bit though. We haven't driven it yet, just backwards a few feet. I'm not sure what's next, but we might get the injectors checked to make sure they're okay

I'm going to try and get a video clip to show you guys.



A big thanks and a muuuuuah to all of you. We couldn't have done it without you!

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Natalie

way to go

I suspect the smoke is the assembly lube or oil that was used during assemble of the engine.

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Jim

No plates and no insurance, so it was just a trip around the block. But, so far so good! It starts IMMEDIATELY (it starts so good in fact it won't shut off :p ), the acceleration and braking and handling seem good. There is zero blowby, and the smoking out the tailpipe seems to have stopped.

We have to figure out the vaccum leak that is causing it to not shut off. And the speedometer doesn't work. Not too surprising as 1981 was electrical, and 1985 was spiral. But all the other gauges work (and it didn't overheat when idling). It does idle a little rough, but not really terrible. That is six month old fuel in there, and the fuel filter is old too. Don't want to change it until the junk is gone. So maybe the rough idle is just fuel related, or it could be the injectors need cleaning.

All in all, I'd say thing went pretty damn good. IF the battery had been a good one, it would have started right up.

Still doing the happy Snoopy dance.....

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Natalie

Look at the shutoff valve at the side of the IP. It is located just above the IP adjusting bolt. (This is next to the oil filter canister).

This may be ur problem.

If not, trace the vacuum leak.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jassz
That is six month old fuel in there, and the fuel filter is old too. Don't want to change it until the junk is gone. So maybe the rough idle is just fuel related, or it could be the injectors need cleaning.

if you talking bout the pre-filter, change it. its inexpensive and will become futher clogged and make it run worse. maybe try a diesel purge?

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have no worries.....President Obama swears "If you like your gun, you can keep it