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  #1  
Old 04-29-2009, 09:54 AM
Squabble's Avatar
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Wastegate Spring

Quick question: while discussing possible performance upgrades with a farmer/farm mechanic friend of mine, he said (after installing a boost guage & pyrometer) to just put in a stiffer wastegate spring and "trick" the turbo and that should do it. Will this work? Good idea or bad? He didn't really elaborate. Can anyone describe the effects?

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  #2  
Old 04-29-2009, 10:02 AM
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No need to get a different spring. Just adjust the preload on the one thats in there.
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  #3  
Old 04-30-2009, 01:22 AM
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An even easier way to accomplish the same thing is to put a boost controller into the air pressure line to the wastegate actuator. One additional benefit of doing it this way is that instead of a single, static setting for the wastegate actuator (like you get from adjusting the spring tension) you get an easily adjustable setting. This makes it easier to fine-tune and get just the turbo boost pressure you want/need for the amount of fuel your IP and injectors are supplying.
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  #4  
Old 04-30-2009, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squabble View Post
Quick question: while discussing possible performance upgrades with a farmer/farm mechanic friend of mine, he said (after installing a boost guage & pyrometer) to just put in a stiffer wastegate spring and "trick" the turbo and that should do it. Will this work? Good idea or bad? He didn't really elaborate. Can anyone describe the effects?
Do ya have EGT and Boost gauges? Do you have a spare engine? If not on both counts then concentrate on those gauges before you start changing boost levels.
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  #5  
Old 04-30-2009, 11:02 AM
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As long as he isn't pushing more fuel there is no need to go past 12psi. He won't kill the engine without the gauges by simply adjusting the wastegate to within factory spec.
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  #6  
Old 05-01-2009, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by winmutt View Post
As long as he isn't pushing more fuel there is no need to go past 12psi. He won't kill the engine without the gauges by simply adjusting the wastegate to within factory spec.
I agree. There is a line of what you can do and what you should not do without gauges, it's at a different place depending on skill/experience level. He's not quite at install gauges yet without adding fuel- and alda fuel adjustment is not going to raise EGT's to a dangerous level. A really strong spring may give much higher boost levels than 12 psi however, so start with a slightly stiffer spring.
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  #7  
Old 05-03-2009, 03:09 PM
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how to increase power on a 617 turbo

Hi guys, I thought I'd chime in. I have a 84 & 87 300TD. My 617 gets 25 psi boost above 75 mph and 22 psi for my 87. I installed EGT & Boost gauges as well as vacuum and voltage. I used a fuel hose pincher to completely cut off the air signal to the waste-gate then LEANED the ALDA and adjusted full load limiter linkage to allow more fuel at full load. This combination has given awesome performance on my fully rebuilt 617 with fifty thousand miles of constant hammering(I live in a hilly area). My 603 has 295,000 miles on it and for two years has been running at high boost with no problems. I let them cool down a bit before shut down and high boost uses more oil so don't be surprised. One thing you can do to dramatically improve acceleration on a 82-84 turbo is to find a wrecked 85-95(123 or 124) and remove the torque converter which has a stall speed of 2,300 rpm and replace it with the original which has a stall speed of 1,800 rpm. One thing to note: before increasing boost make sure you have a timing chain which does not have more than a couple degrees of stretch and that the start of delivery is perfectly set. These two factors can cause high EGT's which can cause ring/cylinder damage. Also since you're running high boost you have to keep a close eye on your oil level and change it no later than 3,000 miles(Mercedes recommends 2,500 for turbo diesels) and make sure your cooling system is clean with the right ratio. I have found if you're careful there is no noticeable extra wear and tear from running these engines at high boost. I have seen a number of 617 where the owner enriched the ALDA creating a very smoky situation. These engines always have a shaky idle as there combustion chamber is filled with carbon which increases the compression ratio a little causing the engine to huff. A overly rich setting is going to muck up the engine and dirty the oil. Try to make sure the engine doesn't smoke too much is you must enrich since we don't want to defame the character of our beloved Mercedes diesels by blowing foul black clouds. Good luck!
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  #8  
Old 05-03-2009, 03:37 PM
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using washers to stiffen waste-gate spring

I forgot to mention that in my quest for more boost I originally tried stiffening the spring in the waste-gate. After you figure out how to open the spiral spring that holds the cap to the waste-gate, you'll see a nut on the end of the waste-gate valve. Tightening that nut all the way down will only get you to about 12 psi so you'll want to remove that and get some washers from Home Base like I did that are the same diameter of the spring. I used 4 washers and the boost went to 20 psi. Obviously you'll have to disconnect the boost limiting air pressure switch located on the intake manifold. If you don't disconnect the pressure switch you'll notice when you get on the highway that at around 18 psi when the pressure switch opens and the switchover valve exposes the ALDA to atmospheric pressure instead of the 18 psi it will feel like you took your foot off the pedal until the circuit closes. This can be dangerous if someone is tail-gating you. Good Luck & don't smoke too much!
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  #9  
Old 05-03-2009, 05:17 PM
ForcedInduction
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DO NOT FOLLOW MASH'S VERY BAD ADVICE! He does not know what he is doing.

Blocking the wastegate hose is a very "not smart" thing to do. Not only does it put extreme stress on the engine and turbo, its very wasteful since more than 14psi excessively restricts the exhaust and overheats the intake air.
Boost air at 14psi is 266*f, at 25psi its 359*f.

Last edited by ForcedInduction; 05-03-2009 at 05:22 PM.
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  #10  
Old 05-03-2009, 11:47 PM
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forcedinduction,
My exhaust gas temps are: around 800 deg at 10 psi on the freeway, 1,150 at 20 psi and around 1,300 deg at 25 psi at 80 mph and above in 70 deg weather. I got it to around 1,400 deg for a very brief moment at triple digit speeds which I don't plan on repeating! Anyway, I plan on doing another post but in the mean time my both my wagons are running superbly and get around 25/27 mpg(603 with 295K & rebuilt 617 with around 55K) average 30/70 city/hwy. I drive them hard in hilly areas around 500 miles a week and alternate between them. I watch my exhaust temps and they hardly ever go above 1,200 deg and my turbo isn't rebuilt and it has well over 220K on it including 55K at high boost. I'll definitely keep everyone posted on any turbo catastrophes!
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  #11  
Old 05-04-2009, 12:05 AM
ForcedInduction
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None of that matters. You clearly don't know what you're doing and anyone that follows such bad advice as yours will damage their engine.

FYI: 800* cruising the highway is hot. It should be in the 600-700 range.
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  #12  
Old 05-04-2009, 06:46 AM
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whoa there.

it seems obvious that i need to start with the gauges before i go any further with anything. i willfully admit my ignorance but i am eager to learn.



p.s. - as for the turn of this thread, listen to forcedinduction and the rest, mash.
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  #13  
Old 05-04-2009, 03:37 PM
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Obviously you're wrong since my engines are working perfectly with lots of miles to prove it. On the highway your exhaust temps will vary with incline among other factors. I'm sharing my experiences with others in hopes of an exchange of ideas. I did not expect to be rudely attacked for doing so. I also don't feel the need to act like a immature know it all.
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  #14  
Old 05-04-2009, 04:43 PM
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point of order mash, you hijacked my thread with info no one asked for, regardless of who is right or wrong. you vomited out "train of thought" sentences with direction to people who weren't looking for it. start your own thread to brag about what you're doing wrong to your engine in a "i know better than you" tone.


again, thanks for the info everyone, i'm ordering up a couple gauges this week hopefully.
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  #15  
Old 05-04-2009, 05:14 PM
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No problem, I'm not trying to do that but when attacked shouldn't I respond? It's clear who is trying to pull rank here. Like I said, It's good to have an exchange of ideas in a neighborly environment and that's all I want. Good luck and have fun on your project.

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