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#16
07-31-2009, 04:17 PM
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1984 300 Coupe TurboDiesel Silver blue paint over navy blue interior 2nd owner & 2nd engine in an otherwise 99% original unmolested car ~210k miles on the clock 1986 Ford F250 4x4 Supercab Charcoal & blue two tone paint over burgundy interior Banks turbo, DRW, ZF-5 & SMF conversion 152k on the clock - actual mileage unknown 
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#17
07-31-2009, 10:04 PM
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Scrap the T3. If you're fabricating a bunch of stuff, you might as well go VNT. I have boost response that nearly matches my pedal movement-say "One-Mississippi" out loud while hitting the accelerator and you're at 12lbs. In park.
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$60 OM617 Blank Exhaust Flanges $110 OM606 Blank Exhaust Flanges No merc at the moment
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#18
08-01-2009, 12:12 AM
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HOWEVER, this motor isn't built to handle high boost. It isn't even designed for a turbo. It has no oil squirters for the underside of the pistions (though I may end up adding some) no oil cooler (though I am definitely adding one of those) it doesn't have a cam optimised for a turbo, or any of the other goodies that add to the longevity of a turbo-ed motor. For that reason I don't ever want or intend to even see 12 psi at max boost in this application - much less be able to generate that much in park! Like I said in the original post, I'm looking to max out at something more like 7-10 psi boost. Naturally I like the idea of boost that starts at low RPMs and reaches that 7-10 psi quickly. I think the T3 will do all of that in this application due to the engine's larger displacement pushing more exhaust gas through the impeller. My only concern at this point is whether it is too small and will create too much exhaust restriction, and/or if the compressor will able to move enough air provide that same 7-10 psi at the top end of the engine's 3500-4000 RPM range. That's what I need the turbo gurus to help me figure out. BTW, I'm not going to have to fabricate that much to mount the turbo. Since the exhaust manifolds are already connected together by a crossover and then the exhaust dumps out of a larger pipe in the middle of the bottom side of the passenger side manifold, all I have to fabricate is an adapter to go from the 3 bolt flange of that larger "dump" pipe to the 4 bolt mounting flange of the turbo inlet. It's basically going to be mounted under the passenger side exhaust manifold, much like it is on the OM617. Beyond that all I have to fabricate is a support bracket for it, and an inlet tube to the fender-mounted air filter box.
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1984 300 Coupe TurboDiesel Silver blue paint over navy blue interior 2nd owner & 2nd engine in an otherwise 99% original unmolested car ~210k miles on the clock 1986 Ford F250 4x4 Supercab Charcoal & blue two tone paint over burgundy interior Banks turbo, DRW, ZF-5 & SMF conversion 152k on the clock - actual mileage unknown Last edited by rcounts; 08-01-2009 at 12:28 AM.
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#19
08-01-2009, 12:37 AM
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The only reason I have 12psi in park is because I set the system to stop at 12psi. When I was calibrating it I could tag 25psi.
A properly calibrated VNT will spool up fast, and then maintain constant boost at the max pressure you set it for. You can also hook up a switch to open the vanes while cruising on the highway, removing exhaust restriction. A T3 should work well for your setup, building boost faster than an om617 would(sub 2k). I'm just saying that a VNT can potentially give you full boost below 2k. The T3 wastegate should be large enough to vent excess pressure, if it isn't you can always rig up an EGR as a secondary wastegate. Also, in my humble opinion, a straight piped T3 sounds cooler as it winds down ( slow weeeeeeeoooooooooh) But, the VNT gives you a whistling intake/exhaust at idle; and a "warbly" whine while under load
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$60 OM617 Blank Exhaust Flanges $110 OM606 Blank Exhaust Flanges No merc at the moment
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#20
08-01-2009, 01:15 AM
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COOL! One more vote for "this crazy idea should work"! Thanks!
The VNTs sound like a great turbo, and if/when I get ready to seriously boost the performance of my OM617, that is probably the route I'll go. I'm even thinking of buying the one Winmutt has for sale for that future use. For this application the T3 seems adequate (unless someone has info to the contrary), and besides, I already have one (actually 2) of them just sitting there waiting to be used...
__________________
1984 300 Coupe TurboDiesel Silver blue paint over navy blue interior 2nd owner & 2nd engine in an otherwise 99% original unmolested car ~210k miles on the clock 1986 Ford F250 4x4 Supercab Charcoal & blue two tone paint over burgundy interior Banks turbo, DRW, ZF-5 & SMF conversion 152k on the clock - actual mileage unknown
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#21
08-01-2009, 05:27 AM
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The T3 is much too small, at 3600rpm it will be well past its choke speed (red dot on attached picture is 8psi @ 3600rpm.) At the least, you would need to upgrade to a 60 trim wheel before it would work. Now if you used two T3's in parallel, it would be perfect (second picture, on 3 cylinders). For a GT turbo, you'll need something in the GT30/GT32 range. Use this to help you pick out a turbo in your airflow range: http://www.not2fast.com/turbo/glossary/turbo_calc.shtml?FeetASL=0&Tamb=30&Bore=103.0478&Stroke=85.979&nCyl=6&RPM=3600&VE=85&Boost=8&Ec=75&Eic=0&PdropIC=0&TambIC=30&wiPercentMethanol=0&wiRate=0&wiTemp=0&SFC=0&AFR=0&maxInjectorDutyCycle=0
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#22
08-01-2009, 09:29 PM
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Hmmn, I don't get it. If one T3 is adequate to feed 3 liters, why does it take two to feed 4.3 liters? Not that it much matters. Although I have two of the T3s, there isn't room under the hood to install two of them.
What about the GT2256V that Winmutt is selling? Would that work any better? Looks like I am going turbo shopping...
__________________
1984 300 Coupe TurboDiesel Silver blue paint over navy blue interior 2nd owner & 2nd engine in an otherwise 99% original unmolested car ~210k miles on the clock 1986 Ford F250 4x4 Supercab Charcoal & blue two tone paint over burgundy interior Banks turbo, DRW, ZF-5 & SMF conversion 152k on the clock - actual mileage unknown
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#23
08-01-2009, 09:40 PM
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#25
08-01-2009, 11:14 PM
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That could work decently. Cheap junk clone. Probably won't spool up at all with that huge turbine housing.
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#26
08-02-2009, 12:53 AM
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You say that one "could work decently" but let's make sure we're on the same page. Do you mean that one should be able to spool quickly at low RPMs, build no more than about 10 PSI - but be able to sustain that 10 PSI up through 3600 RPMs? That is what I'm looking to do. I don't want to build a race engine, just add enough of a mild boost to get up into the 120-130 HP range.
Here are some more possibilities - if you don't mind giving an opinion on them, and on which of the whole lot would best suit my stated goals... I particularly like the idea of getting the whole wastegate setup as part of the purchase...
__________________
1984 300 Coupe TurboDiesel Silver blue paint over navy blue interior 2nd owner & 2nd engine in an otherwise 99% original unmolested car ~210k miles on the clock 1986 Ford F250 4x4 Supercab Charcoal & blue two tone paint over burgundy interior Banks turbo, DRW, ZF-5 & SMF conversion 152k on the clock - actual mileage unknown
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#27
08-02-2009, 04:40 AM
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Tiny turbo, good for about a 2.5L diesel. Really tiny turbo, small even for a 2.0L engine. Chinese clone junk. Wouldn't live long. Not much better than the above. Same turbo as above. This one would be really good. It looks like the T04E will be in a more efficient range than the T04B you linked to earlier.
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#28
08-03-2009, 12:17 AM
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Cool, thanks man. I really appreciate your input and the knowledge behind it. I've sent a message to that eBay seller asking how much he'd want to bundle that turbo with a basic 90 degree output flange, wategate actuator setup, and an egt gauge. If the whole package can be had for under $200, I'll probably go that route.
Well, I started the project today by pulling the windowed 2.8 L out of the Jeep. Once I got it out and compared the flex plates and got a good look at the torque converter I ran into my first 2 snafus. First off the starter on the 2.8 L is on the passenger side and the 4.3 L is on the driver's side. Not a big deal since the starters both bolt to the bottom of the block. I can easily cut a chunk out of the bottom driver's side of the bellhousing to accomodate the starter on the driver's side and fab a sheet metal cover to keep the dirt out. The second one is going to be a bit more challenging to overcome. The flexplate for the 4.3 L is about 1/2"-3/4" smaller in diameter than the one from the 2.8 L. The 4.3 L ring gear also has a lot fewer and a lot larger teeth. The 4.3 L flexplate also has a large cast iron balance weight riveted onto the side that faces the tranny. That balance ring also means that the torque converter for the 2.8 L can't simply be bolted to the flexplate from the 4.3 L - especially since the balance ring on the 4.3 L flexplate has 3 cutouts for the torque converter mounting pads - and the 2.8 L torque converter has FOUR mounting pads. I'm thinking that the balance ring was probably added to the 4.3 L flexplate to compensate for the smaller, light weight torque converter that GM used with the FWD 125THM transmission. So, I either have to remove the balance weight from the 4.3 L flexplate and have it re-drilled to bolt up to the larger torque converter, or talk to a tranny shop and see if there is a smaller GM torque converter that is compatible with the input shaft diameter, length, and spline count. I'm thinking that is going to be a real long shot, and I'll end up going with removing the balance ring from the 4.3 L flex plate. The other option would be to see if I can find a tranny and transfer case out of an early S-10 pickup or blazer with the 2.8 L and use that instead. EDIT: Scratch that second idea. Turns out the balance ring is also the flange for the ring gear, so the ideas of removing OR machining the balance ring down are both non-starters...
__________________
1984 300 Coupe TurboDiesel Silver blue paint over navy blue interior 2nd owner & 2nd engine in an otherwise 99% original unmolested car ~210k miles on the clock 1986 Ford F250 4x4 Supercab Charcoal & blue two tone paint over burgundy interior Banks turbo, DRW, ZF-5 & SMF conversion 152k on the clock - actual mileage unknown Last edited by rcounts; 08-03-2009 at 12:30 AM.
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#29
08-03-2009, 03:39 PM
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#30
08-03-2009, 04:06 PM
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Take plenty of pictures.
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