Who keeps letting forced in here? he tends to be counter-productive and useless. Stop telling everyone 616's cant make more power because it is 100% false.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A1TyXv5r28

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1996 s10 zr2 with a 6.5 turbo diesel
1996 c2500 suburban with a 6.5 turbo diesel
1981 300sd with a turbo 617
Monte carlo figure 8 car

Ok kids lets take a breath and step AWAY from the keyboard, PLEASE!

My mind is spinning with no answer given. I'm NOT wanting to motor swap. I just want a little more noticable power on tap without taking out a 2nd mortgage doing it.
47Dodge has given some solid answers.
Since i'm past doing routine maintenance then #2) Ip adjustments and #3) manifold building are my interest.
Can you explain what these are and cost involved please?
Side note I'd also be interested in a low PSI turbo

My goal is to pep up the 82 240d for a daily driver with good mpg. I get my need for speed with other cars/bikes.

Thinking if this can be done i'd be willing to buy a 240d motor to put on the engine stand and build from scratch, then install it into a car. In all reality it may be more cost effective to buy a complete 300d that comes factory with turbo and more power. for the sake of keeping ON TOPIC I'd like to know information focused on the 240d.
Thank you!

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2006 Jetta TDI DSG 320k miles
1997 Ford F150 325k miles 4.2L V6 "Work Truck"
2008 Tundra 225k miles 5.7L
1982 240D.....sold
1984 300D...Totaled OUCH!
1985 300D Turbo 222k miles "Dos" sold to 79Mercy
1986 300SDL 98K miles "The Beater"....sold
1987 190E 2.3 16v Euro spec 115K miles....sold

Bosch M and Mw pump theory

This gives the thoery on ip adjustments, with pictures to show which adjustments are being talked about. Adjustments are done with the ip in the car. You should put an egt gauge on before doing to much.

Look up zumotor for info on tuned intakes. Basically I cut the manifold so 4" remains of the original manifold, and made a new plenum.

Advancing the timing (ip)helps, and also gives better fuel mileage.

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1977 240D turbo

Your being to narrow minded, anything (besides boost adjustments) that you can do to a 617 can be done to a 616. So stop looking for 616 specifics and read up on the 617's.

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1996 s10 zr2 with a 6.5 turbo diesel
1996 c2500 suburban with a 6.5 turbo diesel
1981 300sd with a turbo 617
Monte carlo figure 8 car

I reamed out the holes in the pre chambers(pc's) this week, and this does give a nice improvement. It has been talked about so I took the plunge and did it. Here are the areas of the holes in the pcs,


616 .0528 square inchs '78
616 .0498 square inchs uprated? an '83
617 .0595 square inchs turbo, '83

It is interesting to note that the uprated ones have less area. three holes are bigger(.125), but two are smaller(.090), plus the mini hole(.025) in the bottom. If i where to go .125 on all five holes in the old style pc then it comes to .0613.

I did ream to .125 diameter on all holes, they were .116.

Results, 5 mph faster on the hill climb. Egts just over 1300 at top of hill. Hill has 700ft of elevation change. Not sure of the distance, but it is steep, and starting from a stop.For general driving lower egts, and more responsive, less smoke too. Now a normal start from a light gets no visible smoke.

This is not a stock engine, changes are new manifold, advanced timing, larger exhaust, ip adjustments. So nothing radical, but not stock either.

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1977 240D turbo

X1000

The "up rated" engine also had a "hotter cam" as well, which let the engine breathe better. Better VE results in higher compression pressures, higher pressure with the same sized holes = more flow, so in order to maintain the same volume allowed in the PC, they had to reduce the hole dia. Granted, this is my opinion.

The manufactures go to great lengths to limit the combustion temps. The PC and, fuel system for that matter, are all calibrated for a pitiful amount of fuel to meet emission standards. Increasing the fuel and air into the PC, results in more combustion and higher pressures, producing more power and emissions.

It is my opinion that at least 25% of the high egt readings are due to fuel burning in the exhaust manifold and not the cylinder. Increasing the PCs ability to breath helps more fuel burn in the cylinder, producing work, resulting in lower EGTs and less smoke, at the same delivery quantity and engine speed as before. Larger elements allow for more time for a given quantity of fuel to be in ideal combustion conditions, further increasing combustion efficiency and power, while reducing smoke and EGTs.

for fuel mileage, did about 600 miles this weekend, averaged 31 mpg for mostly highway, running about 70 mph.

I am not ready to try it,at least not yet but wonder if even larger holes(in the pcs) would give more gain. This effort was a conservative one. There must be a point of no return were bigger holes stop giving better performance. For the time being I have other things I need to do like fix some minor rust before it becomes a problem. But just thinking out loud.

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1977 240D turbo

Is that better, worse, or indefferent compared to the stock PCs?


To recap, how much have you gained in total with all your mods?

I frankly have no grievance with him other than following the rules which apply to everyone.
I could care less about Lance's personal views, and perhaps in person he is a nice guy, but rules are rules and Lance does not follow them. He gets banned and sweet talks to the mods to let him back -which they do- and gets banned again in short order. I posted this so that the mods now and in the future could have a record of his behavior.

Note the mod deleted a quite derogatory PM from Lance as he sneaked illegally back in. I do not believe banned members who sneak back in (and are removed in short order) have any right to complain about PM's being posted in public.

it's generally a bad idea to paste PM messages into the public forum...
I'll move this post into the private moderator forum for the record, to keep current and future moderators aware of Lance's methods.

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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 560SL convertible
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
2005 Dodge Sprinter 2500 158"WB
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!

I agree- but banned members who come back illegally should be afforded no expectation of privacy when trying to intimidate good standing members. He sent another PM which was quite derogatory and generally indicative of his unstable personality.

fuel mileage did not change.

40 mph over the hill stock in third gear, 52mph now in 4th gear, will do better in third, but have not pushed it to find out how much. Just do not like to go over about 50 in third, it should take it though.

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1977 240D turbo

anybody who is getting intimidating PM's should report the PM to the moderation staff.
one of us will deal with the intimidating member.

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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 560SL convertible
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
2005 Dodge Sprinter 2500 158"WB
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!

So that is a 30% increase in speed. And you are now shifting into 4th. Nice work.

I had an issue where I could only get to 60 mph by the time I ran out of entrance ramp, and the traffic is rolling 75 mph on average. Now after the work I did, I can get up to 72ish by the time I run out of ramp, so the "real life" performance measurements really do mean something, IMO.