Discussion of new rules for classifieds section... - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Wayne 962 · #1 10-10-2011, 01:21 AM

We recently altered the rules for the classifieds section based upon the recommendations of some users and moderators. These rules reflected a lot of the lessons learned elsewhere over the past 13 years. I received quite a few PMs applauding the moves as a big improvement. I also received some negative posts and PMs from people who disliked the changes. In general, the split was about 50/50, so I figured that I would open it up to discussion here. My apologies that the initial post regarding the new rules was not able to be replied to. I made a mistake in the forums settings that I did not catch.

Onto the discussion - let's start with the replies to ads. I received at least one message from a poster who said that he no longer posts any ads on this forum because of all of the negative bashers who trash the cars as soon as they are posted. I received more email from other people who agreed in principle that negative posts trashing cars for sale was not a positive addition to the board. Still others countered that posting replies to ads allowed people to ask questions missing from the ads and also to "ferret" out information. From our experience with the other boards, we found that no amount of coaxing would stop inherently negative people from trashing other people's ads. This quickly led to an environment where people were afraid to post their ads for cars for sale, and basically decreased the usefulness of the classifieds section (which is what some people said about the classifieds section here).

That said, the presence of a strong moderator to filter out the negative comments could indeed counter this. I'm not sure if we have anyone here willing to take on that task (call to action anyone?). On the Pelican side, our for sale moderator had a difficult time filtering out the negative comments, so we tried out the no-replies policy. The reaction was negative at first, but then something interesting happened - the classifieds flourished and people began posting many more ads of cars for sale. Now, the Pelican classifieds section is a destination for people looking to buy & sell and the success ratio of selling to another member is very, very large.

Point #2 - commercial postings. While it is true that allowing commercial postings has a potential to get out of hand, we have not seen this on the other forums. In fact, it's been quite the opposite, where the for sale forum has flourished and grown as the commercial posters have followed the rules. If they don't follow the rules, their posts get deleted and they get banned (until they contact us, and we explicitly point out the rules post in the stickies section). On this particular topic, I don't see any downside to opening up the forums to commercial postings on a trial basis - one can always revise the policy later. On the other forums, we have noticed that our commercial parties are typically very professional, well-mannered, and generally offer good cars for sale. It has certainly not be a problem, and I don't anticipate it will be a problem here. Expanding the number of people that can list here means that there will be an expansion of the number of listings, and that's good for both the buyers and the sellers. That said, the policies can always be revised if it isn't quite working out well.

Finally, it's our goal to improve and grow the forum and community here. I've been working night and day to upgrade the forums software and servers and bring it up to current standards. The former owners of PeachParts have done a good job of bringing it up to this point, but for the past few years - let's just say that there's been no routine oil changes performed for quite some time now.

It is not our goal to impose some random set of rules or standards without community input. Again, these changes were suggested to me by the members here and were not pulled out of thin air. It's apparent now that there's a split amongst the members here as to the best path to take, and that should be put up for some discussion. Please keep it polite and respectful so everyone has a voice.

Thanks for your continued patience and support,

Wayne

Wayne 962 · #2 10-10-2011, 01:24 AM

Here's a sample of a good PM with feedback that I received:

Quote:

Wayne,

I think the new rules are great, trashing people's cars has been going on far to long. I wouldn't sell anything on this site before.

However it might be beneficial to allow the members to post questions about the item for sale. I guess they could PM the seller but than other members who might be interested won't see that. Also this allows them to leave feedback good and bad, and we have had a few deadbeat's on here over the years.

What I found that worked well in the past [snip] was to only allow questions regarding the items and other posts were just deleted. This didn't ruffle the members feathers to badly, and the annoying your car is an overpriced POS posts just stopped. [snip]

PS I have been on this site almost 10 years and I like a lot of the changes your doing. [snip]

Travis_k · #3 10-10-2011, 02:00 AM

As far as commercial postings, I dont see a problem as long as its not too annoying (way too many posts of boring stuff, etc).

As far as replys to for sale posts, I am still of the opinion that allowing constructive replys is of more benefit than harm. I am not sure how much extra work this would be, but it seems a way of minimizing most of the problems would be to require that all items posted for sale have a price in the first post, and that discussion of the price be limited to potential buyers making an offer on the item. I dont think strict moderation would be required if sellers would be responsible policing their own adds and reporting posts that they would like removed. It would require a moderator to delete the reported posts, but not much additional work than that. It does still give slightly more potetial for scams to go unnoticed, but if you ask a seller what you feel is a reasonable question and see that the post gets removed, its probably a good idea to buy from someone else. Another plus to allowing replys is that it leaves a public record of who expressed interest in purchasing an item first when multiple people are interested.

Stretch · #4 10-10-2011, 03:05 AM

Here's what I sent to Wayne

[Quote]

I think you are making a mistake not allowing people at least to be sarcastic when someone puts their car for sale on your forum with a silly asking price.

I'm not 100% sure if you realise this but you've bought a very trusted source of information. If a car is for sale for a particular amount on this forum then people are likely to trust that that price is reasonable. The main reason for this is that the comments added to the advertisement serve as a self policing function. If you remove that you might start getting a bad reputation.

I understand that there is a buyer beware clause in the terms and conditions of the use of the service but that isn't enough in my opinion to stop disappointment and to stop people from getting upset with you.

[End quote]

So I think there are benefits to self policing of adverts - however criticism needs to be polite!

t walgamuth · #5 10-10-2011, 03:54 AM

The no comment rule is the status over on the Miata forum. When I sell things over there as I get questions via PM I typically will then post replies to my ad with the information offered to the person asking by PM so all can benefit. It seems ok but the way things were run here traditionally seems to work farily well too.

One thing done here that I really appreciate is that ads are not purged but remain available pretty much forever, so it is possible to pull up an ad that is years old and redo it with the latest information and bump it to the top or cut and paste and start a new ad.

Having a diligent Mod for this section may be a good idea but it is a lot of responsibility for someone to take on without compensation.

Wayne 962 · #6 10-10-2011, 04:48 AM

Tyler sent me this note this evening, posted here with his permission.

-Wayne

Quote:

Originally Posted by TylerH860

This is something I would happily do. Delete any overly critical or negative commentary and help sellers get the most from their ads and encouragement for potential buyers. I contribute more this way than in any technical fashion. Since its my business I usually read every ad and see if its not something I'm interested in myself, I'm already perusing most of the threads.

If something seems borderline I can PM the seller and ask if he wants me to remove it. In addition I can allow seller to PM me if they'd like a post removed.

If someone really doesn't want their posts open to commentary they can close their thread. This has always been the main sticking point in this debate we've had over the years. Just because some don't like it doesn't mean we all have to stop.

engatwork · #7 10-10-2011, 07:32 AM

I'm available to help out with moderating the for sale section if needed. I've got a couple/few years moderating open discussion which should have prepared me for something like cars for sale threads. Just let me know.

strelnik · #8 10-10-2011, 08:00 AM

[QUOTE=Army;2807092]Here's what I sent to Wayne

Quote:

I think you are making a mistake not allowing people at least to be sarcastic when someone puts their car for sale on your forum with a silly asking price.

I'm not 100% sure if you realise this but you've bought a very trusted source of information. If a car is for sale for a particular amount on this forum then people are likely to trust that that price is reasonable. The main reason for this is that the comments added to the advertisement serve as a self policing function. If you remove that you might start getting a bad reputation.

I understand that there is a buyer beware clause in the terms and conditions of the use of the service but that isn't enough in my opinion to stop disappointment and to stop people from getting upset with you.

[End quote]

So I think there are benefits to self policing of adverts - however criticism needs to be polite!

I'm tired of sarcasm. If you don't like it, don't buy it. If the price is truly outrageous, you need only send a PM and ask why the price is so much above the going rate.

I put 6 cars on sale for $300.00 each, just a litle above scrap prices, and you should see the comments I get in PMs. I did this to move them. If I don't get some serious movement (I only have one such person so far) they'all go to the scrapper in a week or two.

I want to get rid of the costs associated with storage so they are going.

You CAN have too much stuff.

cgryphon · #9 10-10-2011, 08:38 AM

Thanks to Tyler and Engatwork for stepping up as potential moderators.

I thought this was funny.

Quote:

Originally Posted by strelnik

I'm tired of sarcasm. .

Related to your "handles"
"Nobody knows nothin' "
"The Peoples Demoncratic Socialist Republic of Michigan"
"Invest in America: Buy a Congressman"

I think you do like scarcasm!

MTUpower · #10 10-10-2011, 08:38 AM

Quote: