I posted this in the 190e/V8 thread, but I think it got lost in some of the replies about Tobias' 190. Anyhow, I had some questions regarding an MB V8 swap into the w201....

I've been looking at either getting a hold of a 5.0 m119, or a 5.6 m117 for the swap. The car is a '91 2.6 BTW....basically, I'm just curious which one would be more feasible. From what I can tell, the '117 has a few advantages over the 119

-cheaper
-more readily available from recycling yards, ebay, etc
-uses old injection system (CIS-E right?)

but then the 119 has some advantages too

-more power (probably the biggest thing)
-more efficient intake/airbox

I'm a mechanical engineering student so I think that I have a pretty good grasp on a lot of the technical stuff, but I would like to stay away from anything that will require a ton of fabrication. People have mentioned that the steering box had to be swapped out in favor of a rack/pinion system.....although I could do that if necissary, it would be preferrable not to. Does anyone know anything about an MB V8 swap into the w201, and how much fabrication and general banging around would be involved?

Also, does anyone have any idea what a good manual transmission would be for either of these engines? (5 or 6 spd only....not a fan of 4-spd)

Right now I'm leaning towards getting the m117 and possibly building it up at some later date....

Thanks for any help that anyone can offer!!

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1999 C43 AMG ~~~ 744 on black, mostly stock
1991 190e 2.6 ~~~ m117 5.6 project car

Right now I'm considering using the 5-spd Getrag from a 190e-16v just because I know it will fit in my trans tunnel w/o modification. I've done some research on the trans itself, and I figure that I would not overload it. Obviously the assembly is for a 4 cyl engine, but do you think that I would be able to modify the bell housing so that it would mate to the m117? Anyone have any ideas??

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1999 C43 AMG ~~~ 744 on black, mostly stock
1991 190e 2.6 ~~~ m117 5.6 project car

Quick answer time!

I've currently got an M117 5.0 V8 sat in my 190e 2.6. It's physically bolted in, but not 'plumbed in' yet. It clears the steering box, manifolds will have to be fabricated, you need to alter the metalwork surrounding the brake servo a little (although with mine being RHD, if yours is LHD, it might be slightly different....) and obviously it needs wiring in.

Aside from that, it's looking fairly straightforward(ish)!

Cheers, Martin

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1990 420SEL 217k Miles
1975 Chevy K10 400ci SBC power!
1995 Jeep Cherokee 4.0 Limited
1997 Suzuki GSXR750 SRAD
1989 Kawasaki GT550G4

I think the M119 is quite a lot wider at the heads (a bloke did an M119 into an SEC, and it only just fitted in that...), although there is another person on this board planning to put an M119 into his 190e, so it may be possible, but with a lot more work.

As for a manual box, I don't know of any that bolt right up, they'll all need an adapter plate or custom bellhousing making up. I'm sticking with the Auto, on account of Merc manual boxes being awful! I'd adapt something from a BMW or maybe a Toyota Supra if I were going to do it...

Cheers, Martin

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1990 420SEL 217k Miles
1975 Chevy K10 400ci SBC power!
1995 Jeep Cherokee 4.0 Limited
1997 Suzuki GSXR750 SRAD
1989 Kawasaki GT550G4

bwhahaha.....you just made my morning!!! I think I may go ahead and order the engine today

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1999 C43 AMG ~~~ 744 on black, mostly stock
1991 190e 2.6 ~~~ m117 5.6 project car

I'm the one who is planning to put a m119 in a w201....

As for the gearbox: i want a manual one, definately. And while I am in the process of customizing a gearbox to the m119, I might as well go for a 6 speed.

Here in Europe, the easiest way to go was a BMW 6 speed box.
After a little research, i discovered that the Getrag box from a 3.2 m3 is basicly the same as the one of the latest Supra (fast and the furious type, hate that film), Nissan Skyline (at the rear different because of the 4wd) and one type of Maserati.
This 6 speed box is also used in E34 BMW 540i , some 740i's, some 840Ci's, and in the E39 M5.
Maybe also in the e46 m3, dont know that for sure.

Spoke to a guy who has a 550 bhp Supra (at a dyno run meeting), and he sais that this type of gearbox is very good.

So, over a period of time i bought 2 M3 3.2 boxes, both with a small defect (jumping out of 3rd, and noisy putting it into 3rd)

Last week, i began finfing out how to put this box on the m119.
I saw that the bellhouse was to small for the starter wheel of the m119. WAY to small....
Off course i need to make my own flywheel.
The only way to get this trans to a m119 is to use a 1,5 inch thick adapter plate, and fabricate a very awkward flywheel (very 'deep')
I already had a aluminium plate of 3/4 inch (20mm), to make a adapter plate.

After this, I went looking for the same type of getrag box, but with a different bellhousing. The one which is used in BMW v8 (540i, 740i, 840Ci, M5 e39).

A few days later I had 2 boxes lying in the shed: one defective from a e39 M5 (car burnt totally) and one good one from probably a 540i.
Opened the m5 box few days ago: only suitable for parts, because some sprockets were very rusted, because water came in the box.
For sure, the bellhouse and rest of the casing is usable (I can also put axles ant the rest of the m3 box in probably)

These boxes have a bellhousing which comes close to the bolt patern of the M119.

At the moment i have 2 things on my mind:
-which flywheel to use/fabricate/adapt
-use a adapter plate, or weld up aluminium at the right places, and drill new holes.

I plan on using a e39 m5 clutch, because they are pretty cheap, 260 euro from Sachs, will fit the shaft of the gearbox, and is capable of handling 400 bhp (m5 has that amount of power). Maybe later on special friction material on the plate, because ive heard that m5 clutches easily can be burnt @ 400bhp (although a bit more power than a m119, not much more torque, and torque is what counts concerning clutches and 'boxes)

Why not use a m5 flywheel? Because probably that is a 2-mass flywheel, and i am not into that ****. Dont want comfort, i want performance.

I plan on keeping the original starter, and the big starter sprocket and plate on the crankshaft. ON the plate, the custom flywheel, using longer bolts than original.

forget to mention:

The v8 boxes have a bell house that is definately big enough. Even slightly bigger than is needed .

so reiner.....have you had any luck with your adapter plate? I'm starting to think more seriously about using the BMW box, and any advice you have would be greatly appreciated. Obviously the m117 may very well have a slightly different bolt pattern than the m119, but I think it will be close enough since the engine lineage is common. Also, any thoughts yet on a flywheel? Thanks in advance!

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1999 C43 AMG ~~~ 744 on black, mostly stock
1991 190e 2.6 ~~~ m117 5.6 project car

Yes, the plate is almost ready. It was hard to get all the holes in the right place. In fact only a few were right.
Already had 4 holes welded up before, and today it looked like I have to weld up some more.

But the bright side is, that today, the fitting bushes (or how dou you call them, bushes that put the tranny in exact the right place) from the MB pattern AND from the BMW pattern, are in exact the right place.

Made various tools etc on my turning lathe, to get the bushes in the right place, but now thats OK. This way the center of the BMW 'box is in exact the same place as the center of the M119 engine.

Now its just some holes welding up, and then bore them again in the right place.
Bit difficult to explain.

Anyway: when im done you'll hear it, and to save yourself a lot of work when you use a BMW 6 speed box: I can make a mole probably when im done.

wow....that would be awesome...do you know if the bolt patterns for the 119 and 117 are the same?

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1999 C43 AMG ~~~ 744 on black, mostly stock
1991 190e 2.6 ~~~ m117 5.6 project car

dont know, dont have a m117 lying around, and dont know anyone who does.

m119 & m117 share the same bolt pattern.

Ive had one before. It was back in the early eighties. I didnt like it very much. It was 5.0 117 motor in a @ 85 201. Auto trans with no known suspension or brake mods. It was fast in a straight line but the ride quality stunk. Its too front heavy with a cast motor. It makes the car feel real short too.........

Not to derail your thread but im thinkin of building a late model CLK drag/bracket race car. I might even try a 129 chassis. I think I can get one into the 10's pretty easy and drive it home. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/images/icons/icon6.gif
Cool

Austin TX ... bummer. I need a guy like you here on LI to put my extra 4.3L AMG engine in my Jeep.

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http://images17.fotki.com/v8/photos/...e_fleet-vi.jpg
[ Old 210 E55s never die ... they turn into 202 C55s ][ SpeedyBenz Custom Suspension ][ MBenzNL On Board ]

Balcones- that's interesting that you experienced that; I had understood that the aluminum m117 was actually lighter than the m103 (original motor for my car).......maybe this is not true after all, or perhaps the difference you noticed could be attributed to a different distribution of engine mass?

I plan on using the more powerful 5.6L motor, so I will have slightly more power and displacement to play around with. The car has had significant suspension modifications, although I'm sure everything will need adjustment after I install the new engine. The other thing that will need some work is the wheel/tire combination, which can certainly affect over/understeer. Lastly, I will be using a 16v steering gear box instead of the looser standard 2.6 box.

Any progress w/ the m119 reiner? Don't know if you saw my previous post, but how do the crankshaft and transmission input shafts match up with your adapter plate?

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1999 C43 AMG ~~~ 744 on black, mostly stock
1991 190e 2.6 ~~~ m117 5.6 project car