Turbo Technics E320 parts list, installation, reviews - Page 6 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

RBYCC · #1 07-18-2007, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brabus 3.6-24

If you would read my post right, then you would understand.
I wrote that Turbo "never works well with K-Jettronic.
Not that it didn´t work. (theres your difference)

Wrong again...turbo M103 with KE-Jetronic III works very well...
Proof is that there are many still in service and as I posted will run mid 5 second 0-60 and high 13 second 1/4 mile with .4-.5 bar fixed boost.
So in your mind that's "never work well" ????

Quote:

But let me se, your are writning that the Kit was designed to have an factory look basickly they comprimized the system for the benifits of the look. Gee i think that line tells it all.

Nothing was compromised, it was designed for factory look along with factory performance and most importantly durability.
A Mercedes dealer wouldn't use any kit or install that is one off and offer a warranty would they ?

Its good to hear your are happy with your Comprimized Value Kit for the benifits of the look.

i guess your car must blast the reseller marked when you deside to sell the car some day

The kit has "provenance" and will have a much higher value then someone who creates something in their garage.
I'm not sure of your knowledge of the specialty car market, but vehicles with modifications that were common to the era tend to be more desirable then a "one off" home made attempt.

Quote:

It dosent matter where or who the Conversion kits are sold fore or to.
What matters is the reputaion of the parts inkluded and the meknics who are getting the job done.

TurboTechnics is a very large company still in existence.
They no longer produce turbo kits but manufacture equipment to rebuild turbos.
They also represent the major global makers of turbos.
The reputation far exceeds your Swedish "expert".
Foolish to conclude otherwise.

Quote:

Witch my friend in Sweden has in dobbelt.
Even Americans travel with there car to Sweden for getting there Car Turbo Conversioned.

How many installs does has your "expert" performed that have lasted over fifteen years and traveled 150K + miles?

Quote:

So it was only to inform you that the Turbotechnics are old stuff with comprimized components (Value Kit if you aks me)

Remember the M103/M104 is also old stuff...
Is your " expert " the one with the metallic blue sedan with a graphic on the side.
Perhaps he makes modern power but the vehicle is in the "ricer" class and not worth much to anyone who is a true Mercedes enthusiast.

Quote:

And why be satisfied with smiling to a 500E when it´s posible to tag along with the new E500. (The old 500E isn´t that sceamingly fast to our days standarts)

You mentioned the 500E peformance, not me !!!

Quote:

I was just amazed over the Turbotechnics are using pigybag instead of applying a complete new system with new injectors and intake and ignition system.
The pigybag is running to rich mixture at low rpms. and to lean in the high rpms.

Why reinvent the wheel?
The piggyback system allows for the engine to run in a normal mode and conforming to any emissions standard requirements.
It comes into place upon boost.
My Split Second piggyback control is 3D mappable throughout the full RPM range.
Programmed with a lap top and AFR's were set to optimum on a dyno.
So again you speak of that which you have no knowledge of !!!

Quote:

Why would a profesionel built a system that are builting on another system, and try to get them to work together.

Why not...because it doesn't compromise the OEM systems and maintains integrity and value of the vehicle.

Quote:

It gives only sense when the system and quality hast to be comprimize for the cost.
Sure it´s cheap but then, thats what you get a cheap working system.

You equate modifying something that has no reason to be modified as the correct path.
You have no concept of cost effectiveness.
Why redo a whole system when the original control with a piggyback control is more then adequate to operate at .4-.5 bar boost?

jfilipcic · #2 07-18-2007, 01:37 PM

RYBCC -- Well said!

But to add. Many of us if not all have seen Roman's car and are not dissing his work, but in this case you are comparing apples and oranges. His system is a complete custom job. How many hours did he spend manufacturing his turbo manifolds? intake manifolds? I'm sure if I was offer a tuner $20,000 they would still need more money to do a job like that.
The TT kit is just that, a kit. We are not touching anything else other than the engine. If we wanted to we can get to the point of the amount of boost and HP that is in Roman's car, than we can quite easily build on it.
As well, if you look into it a cast manifold is much more stable than tubing welded to a flange. I've been researching do a turbo set-up for about 3 years now, and many threads that went into great depth on the subject, and shops that do nothing but turbos all came to the same conclusion regarding manifolds. Once you weld a piece of metal to another piece of metal it warps. You can have it ground to what is perceived to be flat, but you will always have issues, if not with that then in time with fatigue with the welds.

Brabus 3.6-24 · #3 07-18-2007, 02:05 PM

Yes i just still don´t get, why do all the troble for only 300 HP?

Your car is far less wurth wit hthis kit than without.

If you go for a realy reseller value you should bay a AMG or BRABUS converted car instead.
And even then your reseller value of the car isn´t even close to the difference you would expect

Here the BRABUS was 25% more expencive than the other mercs in same condition. and it costed almost 50% more at the time it was sold.
So i think even talking about reseller value is stupid for this Turbo W124 model wich wassent a stock or a factory sold mercedes Option.
Only the 500E, AMG´s and BRABUS has a bit of better reseller value.

If you modifi your car with turbo there isn´t such thing as a Ricer, but i will deffently agree with his look of the car, witch was not the subject of the topic.

He uses Ricer Exhaust ends, but that is up to you what you will put on your car.
Driving with the stock system is just plain stupid if you want that turbo to breath and get some boost.
But again you are saticfied with the the low boost so why upgrade right.

Where are all thouse cars drivin thousens of miles with this turbo kit you got??? and why not, they only produce around 100 HP ekstra on a engine that is from scratch a under powered engine. M103 3000CCM and only producing 180 HP ??? no wonder why it can take another 100 without getting to pushed.

And yes you where comparing your self with the 500E, as you said you would be proud to put yor car next to a 500E (right)
Yes i started to compare with the 500E so what.

aka$h · #4 07-18-2007, 02:16 PM

Well the kit installed on a m104 with produce 345 bhp, with a bit of tweeking using the exisitng turbos 400 BHP should be easily achiveable.
Im having a LSD fitted to the car, and 4pot calipers off a 500SL, that combined with the brabus suspension i already have should be a nice enough drive. And yes I could buy a 500E, and they are great to drive but I cant get one in right hand drive and it wount look like this either:

Its each to their own, I like my coupe just wish it had a little more power, so thats what Im going for.

RBYCC · #5 07-18-2007, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brabus 3.6-24

Yes i just still don´t get, why do all the troble for only 300 HP?

Your car is far less wurth wit hthis kit than without.

If you go for a realy reseller value you should bay a AMG or BRABUS converted car instead.
And even then your reseller value of the car isn´t even close to the difference you would expect

Here in Denmark the BRABUS was 25% more expencive than the other mercs in same condition. and it costed almost 50% more at the time it was sold.
So i think even talking about reseller value is stupid for this Turbo W124 model wich wassent a stock or a factory sold mercedes Option.
Only the 500E AMG´s and BRABUS has a bit of better reseller value.

If you modifi your car with turbo there isn´t such thing as a Ricer, but i will deffently agree with his look of the car, witch was not the subject of the topic.

He uses Ricer Exhaust ends, but that is up to you what you will put on your car.
Driving with the stock system is just plain stupid if you want that turbo to breath nad get some boost.
But again you are saticfied with the the low boost so why upgrade right.

Where are all thouse cars drivin thousens of miles with this turbo kit you got??? and why not, they only produce around 100 HP ekstra on a engine that is from scratch a under powered engine. M103 3000CCM and only producing 180 HP ??? no wonder why it can take another 100 without getting to pushed.

And yes you where comparing your self with the 500E, as you said you would be proud to put yor car next to a 500E (ring a bell)
Yes i started to compare with the 500E because my car as it is still can keep up and get away from it anyday, without a turbo and still keep my reseeler value.

Your knowledge of Mercs is seriously lacking.
The 500E is not an AMG creation it was a Porsche/MB collaboration.
The E60 was AMG.
AMG, Brabus and let's include Lorinser and even Renntech were not factory installed options.
They produced "kits" that were added to the factory supplied vehicle.
AMG eventually was purchased by MB as the in-house tuner of choice.

If you want boost then build a 1 bar+ engine....but how long will it last ???

How much will your install cost??

Good luck !

jfilipcic · #6 07-18-2007, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brabus 3.6-24

Yes i just still don´t get, why do all the troble for only 300 HP?

Your car is far less wurth wit hthis kit than without.

If you go for a realy reseller value you should bay a AMG or BRABUS converted car instead.
And even then your reseller value of the car isn´t even close to the difference you would expect

Here in Denmark the BRABUS was 25% more expencive than the other mercs in same condition. and it costed almost 50% more at the time it was sold.
So i think even talking about reseller value is stupid for this Turbo W124 model wich wassent a stock or a factory sold mercedes Option.
Only the 500E AMG´s and BRABUS has a bit of better reseller value.

If you modifi your car with turbo there isn´t such thing as a Ricer, but i will deffently agree with his look of the car, witch was not the subject of the topic.

He uses Ricer Exhaust ends, but that is up to you what you will put on your car.
Driving with the stock system is just plain stupid if you want that turbo to breath nad get some boost.
But again you are saticfied with the the low boost so why upgrade right.

Where are all thouse cars drivin thousens of miles with this turbo kit you got??? and why not, they only produce around 100 HP ekstra on a engine that is from scratch a under powered engine. M103 3000CCM and only producing 180 HP ??? no wonder why it can take another 100 without getting to pushed.

And yes you where comparing your self with the 500E, as you said you would be proud to put yor car next to a 500E (ring a bell)
Yes i started to compare with the 500E because my car as it is still can keep up and get away from it anyday, without a turbo and still keep my reseeler value.

Being a lot of trouble for 300hp? not really. The stock 124 driveline can handle up to 350hp. Beyond that you have to start strengthening the transmission, rear axle etc.

As for resale, I'm speaking for myself and probable 50% of the people out there who are doing the turbo setup, I'll be keeping my w124 cabrio for the balance of it's life. Including the price of the car I have approx $70,000 invested, plus the turbo install. I doubt very much that I will be able to find someone who would be willing to give me half of that if I was to put a for sale sign on it.
Am I foolish for doing all this, yes. But all said and done I will have a car a car that will do 0-60mph in 5-6 second range, will turns heads like a Ferrari and most importantly will put a smile on my face.
Regarding AMG or Brabus modified cars, again the car is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. How many of these cars have been on ebay or on autotrader that are still there (because it didn't meet the reserve price) or it's overpriced in a potential buyers eyes.
Take your car for example, it's a Brabus modified engine. Myself I wouldn't pay extra for a Brabus modified 104 engine. The are at least 10 threads that I've read that say the Brabus 104 engine has a very short life expectancy vs the AMG or Renntech 104 engine. But if it was AMG modded w124 left untouched I would consider. Again it all depends on how big the market is that you appeal to,

RBYCC · #7 07-18-2007, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfilipcic

RYBCC -- Well said!

But to add. Many of us if not all have seen Roman's car and are not dissing his work, but in this case you are comparing apples and oranges. His system is a complete custom job. How many hours did he spend manufacturing his turbo manifolds? intake manifolds? I'm sure if I was offer a tuner $20,000 they would still need more money to do a job like that.
The TT kit is just that, a kit. We are not touching anything else other than the engine. If we wanted to we can get to the point of the amount of boost and HP that is in Roman's car, than we can quite easily build on it.
As well, if you look into it a cast manifold is much more stable than tubing welded to a flange. I've been researching do a turbo set-up for about 3 years now, and many threads that went into great depth on the subject, and shops that do nothing but turbos all came to the same conclusion regarding manifolds. Once you weld a piece of metal to another piece of metal it warps. You can have it ground to what is perceived to be flat, but you will always have issues, if not with that then in time with fatigue with the welds.

Now you've said it much better then I !!!

You bring up an important point.
A cast product is more stable and does not "change" under years of thermal cycling.
That's why production parts of an engine are typically cast.

The manifold that Roman produces can be seen as a work of art, but just like any tubular header product the weak point is the flange.
Difficult to remain straight after welding and even if you machine to a near perfect flat surface your exhaust ports aren't equally as straight.
Too much or too little tightening torque and even exact torque will eventually cause problems as the part goes through thermal cycles.
At some point you'll have to replace blown gaskets.

Roman is running 1 bar boost but he also has rebuilt the engine.
The kits of the era (Mosselman and TurboTechnics) were designed as an aftermarket add on without the need to open up the engine.

What he is doing is far more compromising the integrity of the vehicle.
Recently he posted transmission problems and still not getting his new setup tuned.

He couldn't afford to sell a kit for under $50K based on the time it took him to develop the kit.

Not necessary to Megasquirt a vehicle that has a less then sophisticated K-Jetronic or HFM injector system.
Piggy back is optimum.

If you just want to go fast and don't care about the vehicle having any value, then it's much less expensive dropping a Chevy LS2 crate motor into the W124 chassis.

Fast yes, impressive video yes, but not for me...

Too old for ricer stuff !

Brabus 3.6-24 · #8 07-18-2007, 11:46 AM

some of the best looking setups are custom/home made.
only in the old days where tuners was a rare thing it could be better looking with a factory look.

And then the Swedish organasation is acturly giving you the same 1 year warrenty and a 100.000 Km garanty i think for the conversion.
They do ofcause try to make money, just like the one you are bying the kit of.
So don´t tell me you think your kit is pure service and costomer care.
those plastic intakes and square boks looking air filters are just to old style for me, and don´t tell me it couldn´t look a 100 times better with some crome pipes or blue siliconed hoses. it looks like a value kit.

aka$h · #9 07-18-2007, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brabus 3.6-24

Value Kit = you get something desent and "ok" for small money (the value comes by comprimizing the kit for a low sales price).

This is by no means a "value" kit, the retail on these uptill last year was £6000, it is only because the dealership selling them wants to get rid of the stock that they are selling them for £1000. Yes they could be improved with newer electronics, but with the £5000 change left im sure you could manage that, you can get a fully programable ECU with traction control outputs too for £2000.

The most expensive part of this conversion is the cost of the custom components, the fact 100 of these kits were produced made the cost that much cheaper.

A full stainless steel exhaust
2 Garret turbos
intercooler (to fit behind the lower bumper)
Custom silicone hoses

Just the above to me would be worth way more than they are asking, yes im sure with newer electronics many improvements can be made.

jfilipcic · #10 07-18-2007, 12:47 PM

WOW. This thread is getting a little carried away. But I'm going to put my 2 cents in anyways. And what did it was the "Compromised Value Kit" comment.

I think you should really think about it.... the Turbo Techics kit for 1000 UK pounds comes with a pair of T2 turbo's, cast manifolds, intercooler all the plumbing and hardware. Granted the piggy-back controller doesn't work, but WHO CARES. The turbo's and the manifolds are worth far more than 1000 pounds. And I'm sure anyone who is installing these kits on their cars are using this kit knowing that there is room for improvement, considering this is a 13 year old kit. RBYCC's install has already shown us a few improvements.

Why don't you give us a site or a name of this tuning house so that we have something to compare, instead of reading your insults!

Many of us will be getting 100-125 hp impovement for appox $6-7000 US. So $56-$70/ hp is pretty good since every bit of info I have found says that plan on spending $100 for every extra HP you expect to get.

Brabus 3.6-24 · #11 07-18-2007, 01:13 PM

I guess your all right then.
i was not trying to insult enyone.
That would have been far more ugly :-)

But here are some more videos and sites of his work:
To thouse who thinks im all talk here it goes:
Here are there site:

http://www.turbobanditen.se

http://www.benztrim.com/welcome.html

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4739806961827299246&q=300E+turbo&total=5&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

But as it is for now they don´t have an "kit" because everything is made custom to every costumor, with the oputunity to fine tune the power by laptop.

RBYCC · #12 07-18-2007, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brabus 3.6-24

I guess your all right then.
i was not trying to insult enyone.
That would have been far more ugly :-)

But here are some more videos and sites of his work:
To thouse who thinks im all talk here it goes:
Here are there site:

http://www.turbobanditen.se

http://www.benztrim.com/welcome.html

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4739806961827299246&q=300E+turbo&total=5&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

But as it is for now they don´t have an "kit" because everything is made custom to every costumor, with the oputunity to fine tune the power by laptop.

That's what I thought...
Much too "RICER" for me...
If that's what you like, then go for it...

Brabus 3.6-24 · #13 07-18-2007, 02:35 PM

They could do the setup with 500 HP for around 100.000 DKR.
Thats equal to 18.000$ and that is with all hte work done included.
The parts are the small part of the money.

Of cause a costum made system takes longer time to do and thats what cost the time.
So yes it´s realy a goog price for the Turbo Technica Kit as it´s also kind of custom made to the merc. but i think the intercooler is a bit small though.
again a comprimize in making the system look factory made i guess.

But still if i would do a turbo conversion my state ment is still why only go for an extra 100 HP ? Makes no sense to me. and do tell me thats because it then last longer and on and on, because then you woulnd´t make a turbo conversion at all, you would leave the merc stock.

When all this is said i would still (if i had the money) go for the Swedish setup, but i se know that the TT kit isn´t that bad as i first thought.
Only some minor changes i would do and if it where to find at my door step i would properply try to apply it my self :-)
Thats of couse also why i ask if i could use it on my BRABUS in the first place :-) and yes im not a pro or have a lot experience in turbo conversion, but i was just comparing the to ways to go witch maby is to compare oranges to apples.

Brabus 3.6-24 · #14 07-20-2007, 11:42 AM

Great finaly back on track.

Brabus 3.6-24 · #15 07-20-2007, 01:59 PM

I have one question regarding hte emision controle that you have to check up yearly.

What will the goverment say when you sudently turbocharge your car with higher polution and increase in use of gasoline.

Should you then pay an ekstra tax when the car must go for the bi-annual checkup or what are the rules where you all live?

Where i live, you can´t just turbo charge your car without paying an ekstra tax as would be the same as an identity change of the car to the model you changed it to?

And what about the insurance? they will go nuts here if i tell them i turbo charged my car.
Thats just a common thing here if you tuning your car then no one will insure the car, on less you pay an ekstra 2000$ a year.

What are your all doing in here about thouse isues and is it an isue for you where you live?